Help choosing augments for a NIN/RNG!

[brisk]

I don't like the idea of the X-Hit build because I rarely shoot Sidewinder at 100% TP because even with full archery merits, it misses way too much. I of course, do not merit with RNG either. Thanks for the input though. I think Snapshot + 10RAcc may be my choice.

This. The randomness of Sidewinder makes it unreliable to fire off at 100%. And get RACC instead of RATT so you all can eat MEAT.

[ringthree]

This. The randomness of Sidewinder makes it unreliable to fire off at 100%. And get RACC instead of RATT so you all can eat MEAT.

I find that with sushi and a mixed WS set, I can hit Sidewinder reliably at 100TP but with meat even at 150TP and a full accuracy WS set I still have trouble with Sidewinder. I do not have perfect RNG gear, so take that with a grain of salt.

[Starr]

Wow... just wow. Not trying to get a six-hit build with an E. Bow is crazy, what is the problem with that?

I think he's saying you're just dumb in general, I agree.

[ringthree]

I think he's saying you're just dumb in general, I agree.

Coming from you, I will take that as a compliment.

[trencher]

sorry, but putting RATT and not also putting RACC on the Mirke is just silly.

Racc +10
Snapshot+5
= good

Racc +10
Ratt +10
=good

anything else is honestly proof you don't know how to play ranger.

[Thorny]

You lack the fucking att and acc to even be a decent rng at that point, so fall off the face of the earth.

You lose 10 ranged attack and your choice of 10 ranged accuracy or 10 additional ranged attack by trading vulcan's staff for mekki shakki, your augment for store tp, rajas for rajas, and skadi legs for skadi legs. Your weaponskills should account for over 50% of your total damage, the minor loss while TPing is beaten by miles by the extra weaponskills you get in. If you're using meat and fighting something you have difficulty landing sidewinders on, add 3-4 accuracy pieces over strength ones, you won't lose anything near 25% of your WS damage doing so.

[Shinryuu]

This. The randomness of Sidewinder makes it unreliable to fire off at 100%. And get RACC instead of RATT so you all can eat MEAT.

NOTHING IN FFXI IS RANDOM

IT IS BASED ON A PUMPING MATH MACHINE, WITH FORMULAE AND STUFF

MRRRRWAAAAAAGH

To elaborate on Thorny's ragey rage:

There's a thing called WS/TP ratio. If you want to be different (you hippie), you can call it TP/WS ratio and you're going to have to reverse the numbers, be my guest. Anyway, if you take 10 (easy maths incoming) shots after the WS to get to 100 TP and then WS, and your WS damage is 2000 a pop and your shots each do 100 damage, your WS/TP ratio is 2, or: you do 66% WS damage and 33% TP damage in the course of things. Now, these percentages are important. Alright, now, you have found a way to cut the amount of shots to 9 for 100 TP. What's the increase? In this case, it's 10% (this many more weaponskills) times 66% (your WS damage in percents of total damage): 6.67%. What do you lose? Whatever you have to sacrifice to cut the number of shots to 100 TP.

Now, back to STP+4/Snapshot+5%. Let's say that the Snapshot is a given, and that the STP cuts the amount of hits after WS to 100 TP by one, going from 5 hits after WS to 4 hits after WS. Say you have to fire 5 shots due to missed WS in 10% of the cases, and that your averaged out WS damage in terms of total damage is 60% (for RNG, I'd say that's damn realistic). You go from an average 5.1 shots to TP to 4.1 shots to TP, which is a 24,4% increase in the amount of weaponskills you fire, or a 60%*24.4%=14.64% increase in total damage. What are you giving up? RACC+10 or RATK+10. Would those be that much of an increase?

Assumptions that need to be perfected to see the real return (depends on player):
- Amount of missed weaponskills (I took 10%, probably too high for most stuff: the higher the number of missed WSs is the less WS damage, thus the lower the total return)
- WS/TP ratio, or WS% to total damage. Took 60%, and seeing how good Sidewinder is, it should be a decent estimate? Suggestions?

Quick bottom line:

- The increase in total damage in regards to store TP and cutting a hit to 100 TP is calculated as WS% times the increase in WS frequency
- The decrease in total damage is the damage you lose from going to store TP from say, attack or accuracy (in melee's case, haste), if any.
- Usually, you do not lose any WS damage due to a store TP setup, STP is usually TP-only. Many people seem to forget that. Sometimes you might need to keep on 1 STP piece for your WS. In RNG's case, I don't think you do, so yes, Osode and Hachiryu x2 (or whatever you use) fire.

[ringthree]

Mekki, Skadi, Rajas, /SAM and Mirke with Store TP = 5-hit.

Maybe go with Mekki, Skadi, Rajas, /SAM and Cobra feet and keep Osode or a better Mirke instead?

I misread the guy talking about this before though, I thought he was talking about a 6-hit build not a 5-hit build.

The jump from a 6-hit build to a 5-hit build is huge damage-wise. There is going to be a loss of 10 R. Acc either way you cut it, but I think that the damage difference would favor the 5-hit build even over that loss in R. Acc.

For Snapshot, although I will merit it, I will never worry about it on a piece of gear until someone creates a perfect auto-shoot macro/something for spellcast. I just don't have the perfect concentration to take full advantage of this when I can get other stats that don't rely on my 100% focus. I know that makes me gimp, but RNG is the only job in the game that requires a button press every time you want to attack.

[Thorny]

Mekki, Skadi, Rajas, /SAM and Mirke with Store TP = 5-hit.

Maybe go with Mekki, Skadi, Rajas, /SAM and Cobra feet and keep Osode or a better Mirke instead?

I misread the guy talking about this before though, I thought he was talking about a 6-hit build not a 5-hit build.

The jump from a 6-hit build to a 5-hit build is huge damage-wise. There is going to be a loss of 10 R. Acc either way you cut it, but I think that the damage difference would favor the 5-hit build even over that loss in R. Acc.

If you're making a RNG mirke anyway, it makes more sense to just get the stp there and use your normal shoes(scout's socks + stp mirke = att mirke + cobra feet except every decent rng already has the socks and cobra feet are a waste of AN.. plus if jesus loves you you can +1 your socks eventually). If you do not have scout's socks, or have extremely poor acc in tp gear for some reason, then a different mirke is a viable option. The thing to keep in mind is that most of the drooling mouthbreathers suggesting r.att are NOT bothering with a 5hit setup and simply want epeen plain shots >.> Why SAM without 6hit is unacceptable but RNG without 5hit is fine is beyond me, seeing as RNGs TP:WS ratio is very similar to SAMs.

[ringthree]

If you're making a RNG mirke anyway, it makes more sense to just get the stp there and use your normal shoes(scout's socks + stp mirke = att mirke + cobra feet except every decent rng already has the socks and cobra feet are a waste of AN.. plus if jesus loves you you can +1 your socks eventually). If you do not have scout's socks, or have extremely poor acc in tp gear for some reason, then a different mirke is a viable option. The thing to keep in mind is that most of the drooling mouthbreathers suggesting r.att are NOT bothering with a 5hit setup and simply want epeen plain shots >.>

Yes, I can't really see a way that a 6-hit with 10 more R. Att can ever outparse a 5-hit with 10 less R. Att.

Honestly, I think it might be hard to defend using a 6-hit build over a 5-hit build even before the Mirke when you would have had to use the Cobra feet.

Now I just need to get two Skadi legs to drop, a Mekki, care enough to finish the new expansion and not get the Royal body for my BLM, and actually use my RNG for events.

I would have to double check, but I do think you would have to carry over that Store TP on WS's to maintain a 5-hit build.

[Shinryuu]

I think you have to carry over some of it if you're using Enkidu's pants, but you're free to go with just Mekki, Rajas and /SAM when you have Skadi. Thorny explained it to me sometime and I forgot sorta.

[VZX]

x-hit build is moot if you don't eat sushi. You definitely gonna see whiff fest releasing slug at 100 TP. racc in general also moot. There are many options you can do trading 1 ratk for 1 acc or more, but not the other way around.

Ratk+10 Snap+5 for me.

[trencher]

All this is pointless. If you are firing off Sidewinders at 100% TP you are going to miss constantly. If you want a X hit build and expect to WS at 100 % everytime follow these simple steps;

1. LEVEL SAM
2. GET A HAGUN
3. GET 100TP
4. WS
5. GOTO STEP 3

[Ruuz]

Hmmm. The way I see this new body piece is as Gun or Bow Ranged TP Body (as opposed to KClub TP body which you could just do Hauby setup for). The 5 Snapshot may be good for Crossbow too, but you are also giving up 10MND. As for RAcc vs RAtt, for ranged TP on most mobs (merit), RNG should have near capped Acc (due to Accuracy Bonus IV +24% Acc), thus making 10Acc on body useless. For WS, Snapshot is completely useless, and you can make up the 40Acc penalty from Slug/winder easily with other gear. Personally, I think Osode is still the better WS Body piece.

I may be wrong, I have only studied RNG since I intend to level it once I finish some gear and merits with MNK, so let me know where I have erred. I would also like to here some more opinions on Sushi+STR build vs Meat+Acc build for TP and WS.

[Starr]

I would also like to here some more opinions on Sushi+STR build vs Meat+Acc build for TP and WS.

damn right, so confused but I am agreeing with a statement I saw recently that said use meat for everything but hnm and just use sushi there

[ByeByeTasai]

RNG either Store TP/Subtle Blow and Snapshot, or Ranged Attack and Snapshot. Don't plan on making this a WS piece, every RNG still needs Osode.

NIN Fast Cast and Enmity - Career Tanks, or Accuracy and Dual Wield would be my picks.

[Shinryuu]

Going to say that the expected value of 3 100% sidewinders > expected value of 2 150% sidewinders. Can someone prove me wrong and prove that 50% TP nets a ridiculous, unprecendented amount of hitrate?

By the way, store TP gets you to 150 TP faster, too.

[ringthree]

All this is pointless. If you are firing off Sidewinders at 100% TP you are going to miss constantly. If you want a X hit build and expect to WS at 100 % everytime follow these simple steps;

1. LEVEL SAM
2. GET A HAGUN
3. GET 100TP
4. WS
5. GOTO STEP 3

Unless you are using Sushi.

[ringthree]

damn right, so confused but I am agreeing with a statement I saw recently that said use meat for everything but hnm and just use sushi there

I don't use my RNG for anything except end-game so I always use Sushi. Of course you would use meat on XP mobs, but that applies across the board.

[Thorny]

As far as 100 tp vs 150 tp.. does taking away the r.acc gear necessary to land sidewinders at 100 tp cost you 1/3 of your ws damage? no? Then guess what, WSing 1.5x in accuracy gear at 100 tp is better than WSing once in STR gear at 150. Your entire argument is based on the premise that you can't land SW in your epeen gear at 100 tp..