Mirke Wardecors for THF

[Cream Soda]

Quit nitpicking, you know what I'm saying.

Nitpicking? How? You're claiming 10 acc is going to get you tp faster than 10 acc, 5 dex, and 3% dual wield.

[Ultimagi]

Nitpicking? How? You're claiming 10 acc is going to get you tp faster than 10 acc, 5 dex, and 3% dual wield.

Nitpicking because he's ignoring the point. There are better options; Homam, Skadi, or Raparee.

[ssjjfar]

Definetly didn't ignore or even bother ask about the other options cause I can see someone tping in skadi homan or raparee if they wanted. I only just didn't know why you put Dragon or enkidu harness at first. You said Dragon was mistake which okay, then still said enkidu was better, it wasn't nitpicking it was just trying to see your logic on it.

[chiyio]

and what would your answer be if we're NOT requiring all THFs to upgrade a multi-million gil body piece?

Anyone who considers any job their main job invests into it.

And in regards to your 'omg its so expensive' list:
low eva/Sushi: Rapparee is quested
high eva/Meat: Homam and Enkidu are drops
Evasion: See above about Enkidu, most people own SH by now
DEX based WS: If you dont have Skadi, Dragon Harness is a very suitable replacement for non-MS
STR based WS: Everyone owns Hecatomb, and its hardly "multi million"


Mirke is useless for thief, end of discussion.

[Cream Soda]

Care to explain?
I haven't yet seen the math for 2-3 acc 1% triple attack vs 3% dual wield 5 str so I'm not sure on that, but

When acc uncapped 10 acc 3 dual wield is going to beat 4% haste

As for skadi, I don't see 1-2 acc, 5 attack beating 3% dual wield 5 str


Edit: was to ult

[Ultimagi]

I don't think I'd use Skadi's Cuirie for anything but a full Critical Hit build anyway, I definately think Homam Corazza is the winner. Whether or not Mirke Wardecors or Homam Corazza would be better would depend on your other equipment though. If the 3% Dual Wield won't make you take another hit to get 100% TP and your Accuracy is capped, it might be better. If you have more Triple Attack and Accuracy isn't capped, Homam would probably be better. The difference is negligible and it seems like you'd get better use out of these unique augments making something that is actually better than current options.

[tonystigma]

Triple atk seems to be capped on THF with merits, testing was done showing Corazza adds no TA. So it's 15 acc vs 10 acc 5 dex 3% DW.

[mdkuser]

huh? my 4000x2 dagger hits how exactly 11% TA with homam vs 10% for skadi body..

[Cozmo]

Mirke is best if your always /nin but if your going /??? then obvious Homam will be best. So in conclusion it is still best to have Homam and Mirke if possible of course. Basically the -3%DW Mirke is one dimensional piece based on your subjob and Homam is multi dimensional always (plus Homam is semi free/unlike Skadi >.<). Least thats the way I see it but doesn't matter for me cause I'm retired so I quit.

[Arthars]

you can buy entire full homam set with 12m

[TybudX]

Care to explain?
I haven't yet seen the math for 2-3 acc 1% triple attack vs 3% dual wield 5 str so I'm not sure on that

From MistressMelphina:

"I posted this in the thread on Mirke wardecors, so I'm going to copy/paste quote myself. But the short story is, for a career thief, addiing 10 accuracy and 3% dual wield enhancement is indeed more powerful than the homam corazza in terms of tp gain, in addition to more powerful than the enkidu's in DoT. It is the best tp armor we get. If you spec iit this way, then yes, Homam Corazza is obsolete.



--------------------------
TP lost with blau/sirocco per hit? Nope
Quote:
328 x 0.8 == 262.4
262.4/2 == 131

5.0 + ((131 - 180) x 1.5/180) == 4.59, floored to 4.5. As it stands at its current ratio, blau/sirocco is horribly inefficient in its dual wield losing a full 0.09 tp/swing every turn

328 x 0.77 == 252.56
252.56/2 == 126

5.0 + ((126-180) x 1.5/180) == 4.55 which is still floored to 4.5. With blau/sirocco at least, tp gain is identical.


My current haste
Quote:
My haste with magic 15% added is 33, thus

328 x 0.8 x 0.67 == 175.808
175.808/60 == 2.93
3600/2.93 == 1228 rounds/hr

at 2.48 attacks/round with brutal and maxed triple attack rates that's 3045 attacks/hr


My haste with this new body armor specced 10 accuracy and 3% dual wield
Quote:

Now with modded stats of dual wield enhancement

328 x 0.77 x 0.67 == 169.215
169.215/60 == 2.820
3600/2.82 == 1276 rounds/hr

at 2.48 attacks per round this is 3164 swings/hr

an increase in swings/hr of 119



Comparing the two at a low 80% accuracy
Quote:

Comparing it to homam

Homam has -- 2-3 accuracy (1-1.5% accuracy) more depending on a broken tier
1% triple attack

Mirke has -- 5 strength which is 2.5 attack and 1 fSTR

3045 swings/hr with homam, at 1.5% accuracy (the greater change) is 45 swings/hr, HALF that of Mirke. In addition, Mirke adds 1 base damage and 2-3 attack to every swing, homam does not. The 1% triple attack and 3 accuracy would build tp SLOWER with homam, and it will cause LESS damage on each hit. The Mirke with 10 accuracy and 3% dual wield... Is Homam Corazza +1!! And it wins!! BIG!!!


------------------------

---Conclusion ---

If you spec your mirke wardecors for 10 accuracy + 3% dual wield Homam Corazza is obsolete in every way, shape, and form in both melee DoT as well as tp gain and weaponskill frequency (YES, even at a starting 0% haste). For a career thief, Homam Corazza is now... Obsolete O.O."

From Banalaty:

"Homam+1 version (Acc/DW)
Fortunately the -3% DW does NOT lower TP/hit on blau/sirocco with suppa. Going from 20% DW to 23% DW is the EXACT same bonus as going from 20% haste to 23% haste (3.9%). Since it doesnt lower TP gain, you just swing faster for the same TP. Also most endgame Thf setups will have 18-22% haste depending on rap and dusk vs homam. So imagining a body piece that goes from 20-23% haste is an easy reference. So, for the doubting toms, it might be better to conceptually "think" about it as Str+5/Dex+5/Agi+5/acc+10/Haste+3%. It seems haste makes a bigger impact on our peoples psyche these days and therefore will stop putting DW on the same level as the DA or crit. It isnt.

DW however does NOT stack with normal haste, so it doesnt multiply with buffs in the same increasing returns way that "real" haste would. It will ALWAYS be 20-23% with a suppa. (3.9% increase in damage/TP gain)

3% DW will forever be 3.9% increase in attack/TP speed for us /nin. 2% DA doesnt compete unless 2 is higher than 3.9 in your math world. Same with crits. For straight up damage, Str+5/Dex+5/Agi+5/acc+10/ and attacking 3.9% faster will beat the snot outta any other option when acc isnt capped. When it is, Rap>everything as always.

Edit: If you DONT have a Suppa for whatever reason it is a 3.66% increase instead of 3.9%. Still enough to digitally crush things like 2% DA, 3% crit etc."

I'm amazed all the time when poeple make lolAlla comments, but don't venture into the actual forums themselves. Sure, the general boards are filled with idiots, but isn't it the same here?

[Starr]

There is actually a few good posters on alla, then there's fucking morons with 21000 posts of pure bullshit and faggotry.

[Zorik]

I checked Mandau/Blau, Mandau/X's, and X's/Blau to see if tp per hit was lowered when 3%DW was used. This is assuming Supp earring is equipped.

Mandau/Blau - Goes from 4.68 (4.6) tp per hit to 4.6357 (4.6) .

Mandau/X's - 4.7566 (4.7) --> 4.7095 (4.7)
*Add 1%DW more and the number goes down to 4.6938 (4.6)

X's/Blau - 4.7633 (4.7) --> 4.7159 (4.7)

So looks like we won't lose any tp per hit with 3%DW using these weapon choices either, and imo the 10acc 3%DW body is looking pretty hot.

[Sope]

I'm pretty much convinced on the 10 acc / 3 DW

Thanks TypebudX and Zorik for being amazing and testing stuff.

[TybudX]

Wasn't my math, or testing. Pulled it straight out of the Alla THF forums, from MistressMelphina and Banalaty.

[Arcanesoul]

Wasn't my math, or testing. Pulled it straight out of the Alla THF forums, from MistressMelphina and Banalaty.

Just want to add that MistressMelphina also said that if you're not a career thf or just starting thf (i.e. no Homam, Enkidu, DH+1, Hecatomb, Denali), then the Mirke Waldecors with +10 acc, +10 atk will make a very good all around piece so that you generally won't have to switch body pieces, so it's not useless for thf by any means.

However if you are a career thf, then there are better body pieces available to you for each specific action, and Mirke with +10 acc and +3% DW will give you an exceptional TP piece, as posted above.

[TybudX]

I think what she was implying was that THFs without Homam/Blau/Sirocco (and/or X's) can get good mileage out of the 'Hauby' version of Mirke. Homam is often just a matter of waiting, Blau can be ENMed (even if you static and split the profit, you can buy one after the second or third drop), and Sirocco isn't any harder to camp than lots of the other junk you have undoubtedly whored yourselves out for to everybody else in your LS that wanted that sweet, sweet TH goodness. They owe you. And if you can't get people to help you get some decent daggers, go camp against them a few times when they get ToD on Argus or something. You'll be a 'career' THF in no time.

[mdkuser]

finally got the mirke. tets give:

X's knife/ blau dolch STILL give 5.0 TP per hit with skadi legs + brutal as only stp ( and 4.9 still with rajas + brutal as only stp).

Blau dolch /sirocco gives 4.8 with skadi + brutal.

Skadi legs gained even more valued now for thf.

[Deadgye]

Triple atk seems to be capped on THF with merits, testing was done showing Corazza adds no TA. So it's 15 acc vs 10 acc 5 dex 3% DW.

Just coming in to say that's false. I personally performed a larger sample size test devoid of killing blows and the conclusion was that homam does infact add only 1% TA, and that TA is not capped on thf at 10%.