For anyone whos currently on: Final Fantasy XIII Demo Stream

[Neosutra]

XII was absolutely horrible, imo, due to both the constant farming/grinding (in an offline game? gtfo with that) and the uninteresting/lack of story. It was always 2-3 hours of running, grinding, farming, then 5-10 minutes of story, then repeat. Didn't care about any of the characters at all. Half of them didn't even have motivation for coming along... Only got about 2/3 of the way through then just quit playing because XI was more fun and other people actually see the results of my hours of work in that.

XIII looks way better, at least. The battle system actually looks to be interactive and story looks to be more interesting... will wait and see and buy it used if it gets good reviews.

I dont know, I really liked the story line and loved the character development on alot of them. XII itself had alot of really nice game play features and was pretty visuall/musically stimulating. The only problem I had with it was it felt a bit short and the excess grinding for any of the good items (hi2u kill 200 of this mob for a .05% drop ).

[Jaraude]

Since Uematsu seems to do main theme onry for SE now I am glad that they at least picked another good composer in enlisting Masashi Hamauzu for the soundtrack.

[Xavier]

This is what it comes down to really. Are satisfied with simple things or not? Is throwing a tennis ball into the air and catching it enough for you? Or would you like to play Tennis? This is entirely choice.

Disagree, slightly, with the example.

I see it, more or less, as the choice between throwing a tennis ball into the air and catching it while watching a game of Tennis on the TV, or going out and playing a game of Tennis.

Sometimes, I just want to watch, not play, Tennis. So long as I enjoy Tennis in any form, then I don't have a problem mixing it up.

But you seem to just hate Tennis, and want to make sure that anyone who likes it is aware that you think they're stupid.

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For those who don't understand, the tennis ball is the controller, Tennis the game, and the question whether you want to watch the game (heavy on FMV), or play the game (heavy on gameplay).

[BRP]

Your example goes somewhere I wasn't really concerned about. Just to clarify I was only speaking about games and the act of playing. A simple game or a complex game.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to watch instead of playing. What is a problem is that we must understand that watching(reading, listening) something and playing a game are two very different actions(even watching a game vs playing a game.) They do not fit nicely together as their purposes are pretty opposite from each other. This is what I mean when I say stuff like mud, diluted, messy, etc. Like mud it is the mixing of earth and water for something that isn't appealing as either. It makes for terrible drinking and terrible shape.

There are no dualities, so yes, there is some use of medium in games(aka Simulation). There is also some simulation in medium. This makes for a richer experience in the long run, but you can't go overboard or you make mud.

Good: Street Fighter- you know you are a street fighter from a colorful stereotype version of a country, you got these crazy kungfu/mystical/etc guys doing crazy martial arts. It lends itself nicely to beating the fuck out of people. It is a good game because the game is actually good. If it was bad it would be readily apparent.

Poor: Final Fantasy- you know your love interest's favorite flower and why she thinks her dad is a real jerk and why the main villain likes to wear leather and... and... a bunch of shit that has nothing to do with swinging a sword at people's faces. This is at the expense of swinging your sword at people's faces. It is a bad game because the game is actually bad. It is not visible to people who really want to know why the villain wears nothing but leather underwear and gloves. They should just go watch a movie about homosexuals instead.

Now if Street Fighter had a story like Final Fantasy that would only take away for its effectiveness as a game by adding a shit load of filler. Something really simple like Ryu and Ken doing a BROFIST before a spar makes the players think "aww yeah, we homies." It is nice and subtle and doesn't detract from the game's purpose. It is a hint of flavor.

Having a cutscene every other fight where Ryu and Ken argue the ethics of Shadowloo would be a shit log that trips you into a puddle of piss. It doesn't even matter how LOLart it is. Creating story for the sake of story is the point where you are no longer adding anything to the game.

Now what about RPGs? Surely they could use a real DEEP EPIC story! Well here is the thing: RPGs are not about telling a story, no more so than a fighting game. If a DM is more interested in telling a good story rather than creating a fun experience, his game is going to suck(full of rail-roading and mary sue-ish NPCs.) This is why you will hear from good DMs to not worry so much about shit like why the King from a 150 years ago was upset a certain mistress died. It might come up at some point, but if it doesn't why should it exist? Now if you are reading the DM's retelling of the game(often called Storyhours) that could be interesting, but at that point the iron has cooled and now it is a story, no different from what you find in a novel. The game is done. I do admit RPGs will need more flavor for immersion unlike basketball or wargaming. Too bad Final Fantasy has nothing do with RPGs because you are basically living out one dude's storyline while doing strategy challenges.


But at this point I am repeating myself(which I won't do so in this thread again.) What I really want to respond to is:

But you seem to just hate Tennis, and want to make sure that anyone who likes it is aware that you think they're stupid.

Let me be perfectly clear in saying you are allowed to enjoy shitty games without being stupid. I play shitty games all the time. I even liked the Mother series which tend to be as bad as Dragon Quest. That doesn't stop me from being extremely critical. I still THINK. You only go into stupid(or "uncultured" hehe-haha) territory when you don't realize it. Now if you only/mostly play these games you know to be simple and shitty then your taste will eventually erode away and you will be functionally retarded on the subject anyway. On another note you can still play a complex game simply(think Super Smash Bros or Street Fighter during your youth, maybe), but this is really going into something else.

Let me also say I speak in extremes. Unless I am talking about FF7 which is literally a man's diarrhea.