Odin tips?

[Meno]

I know there is a topic for this in events but I'm hoping more people will see this topic here.

Currently we take around 24-26 people each time and have only won 2/4 so hoping we could get some advice on winning this more often. We bassicly try to sam burn this down but we get aoe'd to death, mages running out of mp which leads to slower damage down the line. We seem to time out at 10-18% so here are my questions.

1. We wanna try a smn burn/rng approach to lessen aoe damage. Would 8 smns and 3 rngs do enough damage to be able to depop adds and ultimately win?

2. For the sams who cant change to smn/rng would sam/rng be a better choice rather then sam/nin so they can just stand back?

Thank you for any advice/answers.

Edit
unfortunately i messed up the title i need help with the boss Odin not tier 3 sorry for confusion

[Arthars]

SMNs and RNGs are too slow damage dealers overtime, compared to solid DDs, and prolly work only in W1 or W2

however if you bring enough DDs, it will definately still be faster than SMN and RNG strategy in W1 and 2 anyway.

As for Wing 3, it is luck sometimes. On a cool day, you can get nice single bat, chigoe, and imps and then a hydra boss and win with ease. and then on a pos day, you can get flayers, ahriman, totally unsleepable mobs or even omgsuperduper x6 dragons + behemoth boss.

Just stick with the official W3 thread, there is enough strategy and setup to bring for a high percentage win. Even the best LS can lose a W3 out of 10 times when shit hits the fan.

if you wanna turn to a smn burn/rng approach......you will defintately fail much harder than going with proper DD + 1 BLM PT setup.

24-26 people to win 2/4 wing 3 is not bad seriously. wait till u meet 6x dragon + 6x scorpion with 12 flayers. You can hardly get 1920 ichors.

[Dammerung]

Tank PT:
PLD PLD WHM WHM BRD RDM is standard, can change it as you want, but lots of healing is good as I end up dumping a significant amount of MP into the DD

DD PT:
DD/THFx3 COR BRD RDM or WHM

RNG PT:
RNGx3 COR BRD THF

This is enough to kill Odin in 18-20min fairly easily, assuming people aren't dying. SATA hate control is important as is DD running out if they are about to die or MP is low.

Deal with the Valkyries however you want, we have 3 NIN+small support hold them.

[cdgreg]

Stole this from our LS forums, much of it was copied from Wikis, the rest was typed by an LS mate

Odin
Einherjar Boss
Basic Strat Description: Super Tank – Ranged DD – Kite Pops
Minimum Members: 17-18
Average Fight Time: 25 Minutes from Enter


Alliance 1 outline:
Tank Party:
PLD/NIN
PLD/NIN
RDM
Healer
Healer
Buff

Party 2:
SAM/THF
SAM/THF
SAM/THF
WAR/NIN
THF
Healer
Buff

Party 3: <NOTE: Ideally there are two of this party>
RNG
RNG
RNG
RNG
Healer (SCH Preference)
COR

Outside Alliance:
Party 4:
RDM/THF w/ 3 Pairs of Power Boots and Wyrmal Legs


Mob Information:
Mob: Odin
Strengths: 100,000 HP, High Vitality/Defense (WS hits which on Gods do 900+ will do 400-500 normally on Odin)
Weaknesses: Light
Immunities: None
Family: Avatar (Not weak to any mob type)
Behavior: Odin is a mob who can be held in place and taken care of fairly simply. He uses an AOE Damage/Dispel at 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50%, 40%, 30%, and 20%. At 9% will do an AOE death. Odin is able to summon up to 9 Fomors through the fight. 6 can spawn (not guarenteed) between 89% and 19%. When they spawn, three are spawned at a time.and can be summoned at any HP percentage ending in a 9 (29%, 79% etc). At 9% The last 3 Fomors plus any unsummoned Fomors will pop at 9%.
Attacks (From ffxiclopedia):
Spells: Sleepga II, Breakga, Blindga, Bindga, Blizzard IV, Blizzaga III, Blizzaga IV, Slowga, Paralyga, and Dread Spikes.
Gagnrath: AoE damage and Terror.
Valfodr: AoE damage and Curse + Silence.
Ofnir: AoE damage. (Might be magic damage)
Yggr: Gives Odin the ability to Intimidate players.
Geirrothr: AoE damage similar to 10,000 Needles plus bind. Used every time 25% of his HP has been lost. (Used at 75%, 50%, and 25% HP.)
Sanngetall: AoE damage and dispel that dispells all buffs. Used every time 10% of his HP has been lost. Will use this a total of 8 times. (Used at 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50%, 40%, 30%, and 20%. At 10%, this TP move will be replaced by Zantetsuken)
Zantetsuken: An Astral Flow like ability. Will be used when approximately 9% of his HP is remaining. This move will deal death to all members within a 20' radius around him. During this time, all members must either run out of range, /kneel or /heal to him.


Job Roles:
All People: Bring Reraise Items. If a DD, bring an Icarus Wing just in case. Use Sole Sushi (accuracy is a problem on him). Holy water is useful to deal with Curse.

Tank – Super Tank / Paladins : Paladins will be the tanks for this. You will run in, grab hate, and try desperately to keep it. DD will be trying to help you with this. However that means you should move around as little as possible. When Odin begins to use Dispelga, begin casting Utsusemi: Ichi to complete afterwards. Shield Bash Blizzaga only. Do not slack on enmity generation as when the Rangers do their big damage pushes when the fomors are popped they will do 10% of his health within 90 seconds. Do not run after him, the Ranger will come to you. At 12% you will disengage, and at 10% nail Invincible, rest, and stay there. This avoids death from Zanetetsuken however you will still take ~500 damage.

Second PLD stay out of range and help cure the primary to generate hate.

Healers – Endurance Curing / White Mage, Scholar, or Red Mage: As a dedicated Healer role you will be doing a few things. Keep Protect and Shell IV (V if WHM) on your tank if in the tank party. Do what you can to last through the fight. Ideally only the Paladin will take damage. When everyone runs in for Geirrothr and is bound get on Erase as fast as you can. AOE erasing of course is a preference. Phalanx will of course also be loved by the tank. Also keep the Paladin refreshed as well as mages.

Buffers/Refresh – DD Support / Corsair, Bard, Red Mage: Bards give Blade Madrigal and Valor Minuet IV. Your melee should not be TPing Odin. Corsairs, it is slightly more difficult. In the Melee give Fighter’s Roll and Chaos Roll. In the Ranger party give Hunter’s Roll and Chaos Roll. Help Erase people when bound. Help to Finale, Dark Shot, or Dispel Dread Spikes.

Melee DD – TAWS / Samurai, Warrior: Samurai are not classic DD here. Meditate (with Myochin Kabuto and Saotome Kote) for TP. Run in, line up behind tank, Engage, TA, Weaponskill. When you have Sekkanoki up Meditate with the AF after the first WS, putting you at 176 TP. Then run in. Hit it once to hit 192 TP. Sekkanoki. Tachi: Yukikaze then TA Tachi: Gekko (or do Tachi: Rana, TA, Tachi: Gekko for Darkness). This lands on average an extra 500-700 minimum damage of hate on the tank. Also, Shikkikoyo the Thief.

Warriors, if you were allowed to come you need to extra attentive. If AOE is owning you, get out of range for cures. You have to be intelligent about play or when you take a dirt nap it might be a while. Try not to take hate.

Ranged DD – Pew Pew! / RNG/(War, Sam, Nin): You are the Primary Damage source. Eat Ranged Accuracy food as even skill torques with 8/8 merits can have trouble hitting. Stand away from Mages, and TP from outside 20. Run in to WS. If you pull hate RUN TO THE TANK. You will likely die, and that’s good. The other Rangers need to survive. When the Fomor spawn, you have 90 seconds to kick out 10% of his HP in damage (roughly 10,000 damage). At this point use Barrage (save Barrage for these times).

Thief – TH4!: Sadly you are here for TH4, but to try to help you a bit, you will be with the Samurai. Samurai will Shikkikoyo you. Run in, line up, Assassin’s Charge, SATA, Hide, WS the tank. Spike damage as much as you can. Also Feint as often as possible, the RNG will love you for it.

Red Mage/Thief – ZOMG AGA RUN!: You need W Legs and 3 pairs of Powder Boots as well as 1 Hermes Quencher, 3 poison pots (avoid sleepga), 3 Holy Water (stupid curse), 12 Remedy (One of them, Helmwig, casts Paralyze II). Keep Legs and fresh boots on. When fomor pop, nail a poison pot, Diaga them, then hit flee and kite. When you have about 2 seconds left on flee, use the powder boots. Use Hermes if Flee isn’t up when the fomors spawn. Keep your buffs up (Stoneskin, Phalanx, Protect, Shell, Reraise, Blink). Note, you DO NOT, run in for the Geirrothr.


Event Timeline:
Event # ----- Act
1 ----- Buff
2 ----- Enter
3 ----- Paladin enter and Claim
4 ----- TA WS PLD begins
5 ----- After 1st TA WS, RNG begin shooting
6 ----- Odin hits 90% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
7 ----- Odin hits 89% - Potential Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite
8 ----- Odin hits 80% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
9 ----- Odin hits 79% - Potential Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite
10 ---- Odin hits 77% - All run in for AOE+Bind (10,000 dmg)
11 ---- Odin hits 70% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
12 ---- Odin hits 69% - Potential Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite
13 ---- Odin hits 60% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
14 ---- Odin hits 59% - Potential Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite
15 ---- Odin hits 52% - All run in for AOE+Bind (10,000 dmg)
16 ---- Odin hits 50% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
17 ---- Odin hits 49% - Potential Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite
18 ---- Odin hits 40% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
19 ---- Odin hits 39% - Potential Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite
20 ---- Odin hits 30% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
21 ---- Odin hits 29% - Potential Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite
22 ---- Odin hits 27% - All run in for AOE+Bind (10,000 dmg)
23 ---- Odin hits 20% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
24 ---- Odin hits 19% - Potential Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite
25 ---- Odin hits 12% - PLD Disengage
26 ---- Odin hits 10% - Dispelga (Remember to rebuff the tank)
27 ---- Odin hits 9% - Zantetsuken, Guaranteed Fomor Spawn - RDM/THF be rdy to Kite, PLD 2hr and /rest
28 ---- Odin hits 9% - After Zantetsuken, Melee Charge and burn it down
29 ---- Odin hits 0% - Odin is pwnt

*Note, we normally also have a couple SMNs, they'll probably work even better now with the update.

[Korremar]

We use 4-5 RNG and 3-4 SMN, no melee DD until <9% after Zantetsuken, and we're 2/2, kills at 28min first attempt, and 24min second attempt; second attempt we were 25man. No relics, no HNM-caliber players. It's more organization then actual difficulty, it's a very formulaic fight. A tolerably equipped PLD takes almost no damage from him. You just have to get rid of statuses quickly, and make sure everyone steps in range for his Needles.

[Vedder]

Honestly, Odin is pretty simple if you can deal with the Fomors ... however, he will dish out a lot of damage with HP Triggered and regular TP moves. If you don't have a lot of ranged DD (RNG or SMN), then be sure you have a 1 to 1 ratio between melee DD & tanks to your mages and support.

We are very light on RNG & SMN and have killed Odin with as few as 25 and around 8 minutes to spare. As long as you have mages & support that are on top of things, your melee DD will be able to do all the damage you need because Odin is squishy.

[mdkuser]

our LS brings a lot of SMN, not for DD but to absorb the different AOEs, including eating the zantetsuken, while every one gets out.

For info my SAM, which has only 4/8 merits in katana, using meat, does always 15K dmg total (sam/thf), which is 1/6 of its HP... so you don't need more than 5-6 heavy DDs. Rest must be tanks, support jobs, SMNs, kiters.

[tom]

In my opinion the biggest problem for us at least were the Fomors that would pop @ bad times ,like @ 19% then again @ 9%.But the way we do it is we have a thf/whm as the only kiter 2-3 pairs of powder boots and they are macro'd in to his flee ,the moment flee wears his boots are ready.High evasion setup and perfect dodge if in trouble make him the perfect kiter.Ever since we used this setup every Odin we have done has been easy and the last 1 left us 15 min to spare.Thief diaga's Odin when tank calls add pop and flees.

If u get back to back adds it wont matter cause with 3 pairs of powder boots you have almost unlimited flee.We use 2-3 Relics on odin and the rest are rangers ,after 9% use wings ,barrage and just prottos it.

[Killkenny]

We generally do Odin with 18-24 people, rngs are primary DDs with 1-3 smns depending on who has access and other jobs available. The biggest concern is fomors popping when you aren't prepared or at the 49% and 19% marks. At 49% with a smaller group we still need as many people in range to absorb needles whilst having someone ready to kite fomor and rngs to get back out of range and push its hp down fast.

As someone already mentioned thf/whm, rdm/nin or /thf, pld/???, basically any job with an AoE spell like diaga and a few pairs of powder boots can handle all 3 fomors solo but thf rdm and pld all work best due to JAs, spells etc.

If you are using rngs and other DDs as opposed to smns make sure they save all their JAs and have tp ready every 10% incase of fomor pop, its best to force them to depop asap as it leaves less time for things to go wrong.

The last 11% we have everyone move out of range except plds and myself (sam/thf), I force Zentesuken with 2hr and plds 2hr and heal so it can't KO them (often 1 pld will end up dying anyway because of an AoE or something). Then the kiter rushes in to collect fomor and everyone else 2hrs to kill it.

Generally finish in around 25 minutes and have never been close to losing it. Rngs are by far the best DD for this fight but a couple of sams can also do very well, but will require more support.

Alliance generally looks something like:

Pld/nin
Pld/nin
Rdm/whm
Whm/sch
Brd/whm
Brd/whm

Rng
Rng
Rng
Cor
Brd
Whm

Whm
Rdm
Brd
(Assorted DDs and the kiter)

If we have anyone extra but not really enough to make a fully effective party smns are best bet because they can support themselves whilst doing decent, tp free damage.

Edit: Forgot to mention often our plds parse very highly in these fights with decent atonement tp setups (not 100% offensive but Odin isn't very threatening)

[Grieverao]

Just flicked through the posts here.

But I see lack of BLU mentioned.

2 Decent tanks up front being SATA'd by a couple of SAM/THF, while BLUs SA Cannonball spam.

We'd tried tons of SMNs before and nothing compares to a nice mix of SAM, BLU and RNG for it.

Going with what Killkenny said also, me and my co-tank popped sushi and went hell for leather on Atonement spam, came quite high in the parses too. If the tanks can de-medicate themselves it makes it a whole lot easier on the MP pool.

But yeah, with decent Cannonball builds your BLU/THFs will do a very nice amount of dmg in here. We normally take 4-5 depending on the turnout.

[Chojja]

SMNs and RNGs are too slow damage dealers overtime, compared to solid DDs, and prolly work only in W1 or W2

however if you bring enough DDs, it will definately still be faster than SMN and RNG strategy in W1 and 2 anyway.

As for Wing 3, it is luck sometimes. On a cool day, you can get nice single bat, chigoe, and imps and then a hydra boss and win with ease. and then on a pos day, you can get flayers, ahriman, totally unsleepable mobs or even omgsuperduper x6 dragons + behemoth boss.

Just stick with the official W3 thread, there is enough strategy and setup to bring for a high percentage win. Even the best LS can lose a W3 out of 10 times when shit hits the fan.

if you wanna turn to a smn burn/rng approach......you will defintately fail much harder than going with proper DD + 1 BLM PT setup.

24-26 people to win 2/4 wing 3 is not bad seriously. wait till u meet 6x dragon + 6x scorpion with 12 flayers. You can hardly get 1920 ichors.

I'll just chalk it up to the fact that your post was at 2:27 a.m. lol, its like you didnt even read the OP or title




I would try to go without atleast 1 full RNG pt, so 5 rng, 1 brd. Otherwise, 8 SMN and 3 RNG should be plenty to kill it in time. The last 10% will be a little more annoying though. Still killable but I find having 5 RNGS for the zerg phase at last 10% makes that simple. If anything, all the SMN's should make MP for 10k needles pretty much unnecessary.

Also, as for the fomor situation. I've tried the RDM/THF + powder boot method and it actually resulted in a loss. The problem is the fomors will pop once at 90 80 70 or 60, then once at 50, 40, 30 or 20, then always at 10. We ran into a problem twice, once the pops came at 60 and 50, meaning they were back to back and right after a 10k needles, so everyone was bound, I didn't have flee up....so my options were to activate a pair of powder boots and wait like 10 seconds while fomors raped people or to just claim them without flee up and hope.

The other problem happened when they popped at 20%, you are basically asking your rngs to zerg 20k damage out of him instead of just the last 10.

That being said, we opt for the 3 rdm/nin now to just hold and tank each fomor, less stress and less possibilities of something going wrong, if its back to back pops it doesnt matter.

[Secksi]

I'll just chalk it up to the fact that your post was at 2:27 a.m. lol, its like you didnt even read the OP or title




I would try to go without atleast 1 full RNG pt, so 5 rng, 1 brd. Otherwise, 8 SMN and 3 RNG should be plenty to kill it in time. The last 10% will be a little more annoying though. Still killable but I find having 5 RNGS for the zerg phase at last 10% makes that simple. If anything, all the SMN's should make MP for 10k needles pretty much unnecessary.

Also, as for the fomor situation. I've tried the RDM/THF + powder boot method and it actually resulted in a loss. The problem is the fomors will pop once at 90 80 70 or 60, then once at 50, 40, 30 or 20, then always at 10. We ran into a problem twice, once the pops came at 60 and 50, meaning they were back to back and right after a 10k needles, so everyone was bound, I didn't have flee up....so my options were to activate a pair of powder boots and wait like 10 seconds while fomors raped people or to just claim them without flee up and hope.

The other problem happened when they popped at 20%, you are basically asking your rngs to zerg 20k damage out of him instead of just the last 10.

That being said, we opt for the 3 rdm/nin now to just hold and tank each fomor, less stress and less possibilities of something going wrong, if its back to back pops it doesnt matter.

Read the OP's edit and reason.

[Chojja]

Read the OP's edit and reason.

ah, makes sense

[Greatguardian]

So, assuming we get our last T3 win on Thursday, my ls is going to be doing our first Odin next week and I had a couple questions.

First off, we typically don't have very many ranged DD or Smns. At present, we have 2 people with Cor, 2 people with Rng, and 2 with Smn. Unfortunately, both of the Cors are also Whm75, a job we tend to have in short supply. Is it safe to assume that BLM is functionally useless for Odin? That would open up a lot more options in the support category. Along the same lines, is it worth the potential support loss to have both CORs up for DD and buffs to the DD/RA parties?

We do have an overabundance of Rdm as well. Aside from the kiting Rdm, and the Tank party Rdm, would Rdm or Whm be more valuable for players with both jobs available?

We do have quite a large number of melee DD available, but how many is too many for this fight? I'd imagine after a point, all the additional AoE damage would take a heavy toll on the Whms. At the same time, how many should be coming /Thf for hate control vs /Sam-/War-/Nin? Are we going to want to focus on 2-handers, or are Black-Belts usable? (We have a few people with both available).

Just to clarify, since even after reading the whole Odin thread earlier I'm still not quite sure (it numbs the brain after 30 pages or so), PLDs should swap into MDT/MDB set for certain TP moves? Which?

For the Rdm/Thf to handle fomors, should they just be running as far away as possible in a PDT- set after Diaga pull? Will they have room to handle the fomors while outside of 10k Needles range, in case we get them 80-70?

Sorry for the barrage of questions. I don't like surprises =X especially when it'd take another 4 weeks to fight it again (LS goes once/week), and we don't do HNM so the list for king gear is huge.

[Killkenny]

The number of DD you should bring really depends heavily on how many people are coming. Some ls's manage 4-6 Melees on Odin (and have them sub /nin and help tank) but you much larger amounts of curing power. /thf is nice SJ for sam because you can pretty much guarentee you won't pull any hate and Odin is reasonably squishy (WS do 900-1.4k depending on tp). Wars and drk however may benefit more from /sam. /nin seems fairly pointless, although Odin does have 1 tp move that takes 1-3 shadows and causes mild damage + terror.

A rdm can do fine as a curer but whms in every party are nice to have because Esuna allows people to get out of range fast after 10k needles.

Plds don't need to change gear, Odins spells are weak and most of his tp moves aren't very damaging. I would recommend a hybrid tank/atonement build, Odin isn't a pushover but at the same time he isn't hard to tank or hugely threatening.

The Rdm/thf will have more than enough space, you fight Odin in the same size battlefield as all the other Einherjar wings. There is plenty of room to kite and 10k Needles range is small, only 10 or 15 as I remember.

[Arthars]

safe win is shoot + claws

rng and smn still able to deal normal damage weakened zzzzzzzz hackers

rdm/thf for pet sounds good after diaga > flee but thats is if your team can handle the next 9% fast so pet depop, and you MAY have back to back pets, which you may not have flee up for back to back pets. not to mention 80-70, 60-50 and 30-20% may require longer time to prepare for 10,000 needle. if your kiting pet during that period, you may find yourself kiting longer than usual, and fomors may eventually catch you up.

if you only want 1 man(RDM/NIN) to take and hold 3 pets, my best bet is bring 3 powder boots for staggered usage. this is the safest method(unless you having 1 man kite per, thats even safer)

[Cream Soda]

My ls doesn't let me melee -.- they have the rngs for dmg and have me sit back and meditate wait till it pops adds and go in and ws to try to depop adds and when they've depopped i have to go back out and wait again. Boring fight for me

[Kumbai]

We generally go with a PLD/RDM (has a very good /RDM gear set) and /NIN~ Odins AoEs are kinda a jewbag for /NIN to tank, but it's still pretty easy... I'm loltaru and it was caek :3

[Greatguardian]

Thanks a bunch . Typically we get anywhere from 26 to 32 members at any Einherjar run, our highest to date being 34 with myself and a couple others dualboxing. Hueg ls is hueg. We have plenty of melees to chuck at the thing, but our weaker area is RA/Pet jobs and Whms. Like I mentioned earlier, 2 of our primary Whms also happen to be the only Cors in the ls.

Would something like a Hermes Sandals/Powder Boots Mnk be able to kite one of the Fomors? We have an assload of Rdms, and a nice chunk of movement+ players we could probably dedicate to kiting each of the fomors. The Rdms wouldn't be casting much on them, aside from Bind/Grav/Slow/Para, right? And, anyone happen to know if the recent Enfeeb nerf has affected this very much?

Ah, yes, and are Cannonball Blu/Thfs going to be good for this? We have a few rather well geared BLUs (one of which also having RNG, so I'd assume he'd be on that). Sorry for the constant Q's =X and thanks again for the quick responses

[Killkenny]

Any /nin job with powder boots can easily handle 1 fomor but mnk can't equip.

Blu/thf works well with a decent cannonball setup and can help speed up hate build on tanks at start, they are better than smns in terms of damage when buffed correctly and are able to stay outside of any AoE damage.