Obama to decide today on torture memos

[Kuya]

I had heard that today Obama is to decide on what he is going to do with the three Bush torture memos that supposedly outline the exact torture methods that were illegally authorized by the government. This thread made by Beckwin mentions some info on the GOP demanding that the memos not be released. Here in some info from a report on DemocracyNow from today:

AMY GOODMAN: And lastly, Glenn Greenwald, thirty seconds on the torture memos, what they said.

GLENN GREENWALD: Well, these torture memos are the most graphic of the documents that exist, where they not only generally redefine torture but explicitly authorize the tactics that are clearly war crimes. They said it’s perfectly permissible to wrap people’s heads in towels and bang them against the wall. These are not intelligence documents; these are laws that our government operated under. And the idea of keeping these concealed, secret laws, is as tyrannical as it gets. And this is a huge test for the Obama administration today.

Further reading on the issue:

Barack Obama is set to rule on the release of three secret memos from the Bush years that authorised the use of torture at the Guantánamo Bay and CIA detention centres round the world.

He has to make a decision on whether to release the memos drawn up by US lawyers in 2005 that sanctioned the use of waterboarding, which simulates drowning. He could withhold the memos completely or order a partial release with parts redacted.


The American Civil Liberties Union, one of the biggest civil rights organisations in the US, has been fighting for release of the memos under the Freedom of Information Act. A federal court set today as the deadline for the Obama administration to either release the documents or provide an explanation of why it was refusing to do so.


The ACLU said: "The memos reportedly provided legal justification for the CIA's use of interrogation methods." It added that the memos also reportedly provided legal cover for the CIA's interrogation methods in anticipation of legislation passing through Congress in 2005 that outlawed "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment".


The Bush administration, in particular former vice-president Dick Cheney, claimed that waterboarding did not amount to torture but the Obama administration has ruled that it is. Obama ordered the closure of Guantánamo and the CIA secret detention sites abroad.


In spite of that, civil rights organisations have been disappointed by a series of rulings by the Obama administration that have protected a lot of material relating to Guantánamo and the sites abroad.


The Wall Street Journal yesterday reported that the attorney-general, Eric Holder, and Denis Blair, the director of national intelligence, favoured release of the memos but that the CIA was opposed, and it was left to the president to decide.

Related to this issue is, that the torture memos could be used by Spanish judges to investigate and prosecute Bush officials for the torture of Spanish citizens. One of the judges involved is Baltasar Garzón who prosecuted Pinochet and led to his arrest.

Here's hoping Obama doesn't disappoint.

[Mizango]

Newt n Rush gonna be mad.

[Olo401]

Ah yes, but Bush didn't sign on to the International Criminal Court so those Spanish judges can have a nice tall order of SUCKAAAAAZ!

BTW there's already reports that Obama is going the Gerald Ford route - putting the issue to rest and moving forward. Huge fucking mistake, though I understand the idea of wanting to forget this shit ever happened.

[Abandon]

Fuck Newt. I say release them shits. Let the mayhem go down, so I can sit back and watch D.C. burn from here in Annapolis.

Gogo riots!

[Mizango]

I'd do it just to watch Ann Coulter's dumb ass whine and get her nasty little twat in a knot on TV next week. That and making Rush's fat ass angry is reason enough to do it.

[Kuya]

putting the issue to rest and moving forward.

Incidentally, that's also synonymous to letting criminals get away with crime. Also, going against Obama's promise for "change". I sincerely hope he releases them, but i have a sneaking suspicion that he likely won't.

[Suited Aces]

I would be real surprised if he did fully release the memos. Has any President ever thrown a previous President to the wolves? I think it's a bad precedent to set. Seems to me that the presidents club treat each other with respect, whether they deserve it or not.

Plus the fact that it would give the GOP even more reason to stonewall Obama every chance it gets.

Overall it seems like a bad political move to me, the negatives outweigh the positives.

[Demosthenes11]

hmm...I can understand why we would want them released, but wouldn't it likely cause even more violence against us? If you are told that a member of your country was tortured, it's a lot different than being shown, in writing, the details of his torture. I don't really see an upside at this point in time to releasing it now. Change the policy (Obama did), move on, and maybe in a decade or so, when violence slows a bit, we can release the full details. Is our curiosity really likely worth american lives? And don't act like Bush will ever get persecuted for war crimes lol. I know none of you are actually that naive.

[Not Kuno]

He won't do it.

[Mizango]

That's a good point.

[Araelus]

He'd better release them. CIA may black out parts for security reasons, but the important details about what was going on have to be made public for legal purposes alone.

BBC NEWS | Americas | US set to release 'torture' memos

Although they have never been made public, the New York Times reported in 2007 that the memos gave legal support for the combined use of various coercive techniques, and concluded that the CIA's methods were not "cruel, inhuman or degrading" under international law.

Once the memos are released, we can think for ourselves instead of having to hear the NYT's opinion on what is cruel and what is acceptable.

In terms of increased violence, this isn't like the Newsweek story they later retracted - these are actual documents. A government protects its citizens through secret methods, certainly, but in this case the original texts should not have been withheld from public scrutiny at all. Or should I think of the violence against the US that exists right now because of international opinions on what we may or may not have done a "sunk cost"?

[Jefe]

Well the bush administration redefined the term torture, that's why those dicks didn't consider waterboarding and god knows what else (actually read the memo describing the new def.) as actual turture. Semantics and shit, etc. (skipped all posts, btw).

[Tristam]

If Obama does release the memos, despite the fact that it is the right thing to do, it really is a gigantic "fuck you" not just to bush but to the entire way the country decided to handle a perceived threat (and I include the public, the public was very very pro-torture for quite a while).

This isn't just Bush's fault, for him alone to take the fall wouldn't be justice atall. (and this is from a guy that detests Bush).

Obama won't release the memos though, it would be a gigantic political hit to both parties and the spin doctors will spin it until we're all convinced Obama released them just as a personal dig against bush. He'll play it politically safe, and I'll lose a little respect for the change mantra.

(here's hoping I'm wrong?)

[Abandon]

Toss him under the bus!

[Mizango]

Semantics and shit, etc. (skipped all posts, btw).

^ Inc infraction...


The shit storm coming from this is going to be absolutely remarkable. I understand what Rob said as far as the worldwide outrage and people deciding to do something about it but I can see how they will release it but black out certain parts that may be considered inflammatory or offens .....Oh who am I kidding, you cant sugar coat torture.

[Olo401]

hmm...I can understand why we would want them released, but wouldn't it likely cause even more violence against us?

I doubt it would.. our government's credibitilty, and thanks to them our creditibility as citizens of the world, is already in the toilet because of Bushco's policies and actions. If anything, coming clean would be the most logical thing to do and would at the very least start a dialogue that could lead to some measure of redemption. And even with that in mind, I'm damned afraid that Obama will go the political route on this by pulling a Gerry Ford. And he'll get pummelled for it.

Someone I was talking to elsewhere mentioned the possibility that Obama might let the non-political folks in the CIA off the hook and going after Yoo and Bybee and Rove, because the career folks were doing what they were told to do. Okay, not a great excuse, but at least you go after the people who are truly responsible.

[Demosthenes11]

hahahahaha they should totally release it like mad libs.

Muhammed Ahmed was _____ at 16:30 by use of ______ and Adm. Akbar ______ was force to use his ______ when Ahmed refused.

[Demosthenes11]

I doubt it would.. our government's credibitilty, and thanks to them our creditibility as citizens of the world, is already in the toilet because of Bushco's policies and actions. If anything, coming clean would be the most logical thing to do and would at the very least start a dialogue that could lead to some measure of redemption. And even with that in mind, I'm damned afraid that Obama will go the political route on this by pulling a Gerry Ford. And he'll get pummelled for it.

o.O I do think the "insurgents" are looking for open dialogue and transparency in their enemy.
They aren't pissed at the fact we are hiding our torture, they are pissed we torture. You can't approach this to how a country full of Olo401's would react to these documents being released, you have to think how a country full of pissed off arabs with bombs will react

[Izzy]

From what I read, they will be releasing the documents, however they will not be prosecuting anyone for it. He's basically saying, "Yea we did this shit, but no one will pay for it."

I don't really agree or disagree, that's just how I understand it from what I read.

Administration to release torture documents from Bush era, will not prosecute agents
Posted: 02:47 PM ET

From Kate Bolduan
CNN
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The Obama administration will release four Bush-era memos on terror interrogations Thursday, according to a senior administration official.

The administration has also informed CIA officials they will not be prosecuted for past waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics, the official also confirms.

[Araelus]

Oh who am I kidding, you cant sugar coat torture.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/attac...1&d=1239910011

From what I read, they will be releasing the documents, however they will not be prosecuting anyone for it. He's basically saying, "Yea we did this shit, but no one will pay for it."

At least they're providing the public with what happened.