The gap between good players and bad players

[konoko]

yea but you still troll us in standard o.o!

[drwaffles]

Why is it bad just to try to have some sort of discussion? I find it interesting to see what people consider "good" vs "average." According to some definitions, I'd be considered average, honestly, and I find it interesting to know what would be required to be considered better.

Not only that, it's just conversation. Does everything you say at a dinner table have to have some ultimate purpose?

It might be constructive if BRP didn't keep popping up every few posts going "but this topic wasn't supposed to be about what constitutes a good player and a bad player - it was created for the discussion of something totally pointless as a roundabout way for me to criticize FFXI for being superficial".

[Eleven19]

Bad players are timesink.

Bad players are late.
Bad players thought it was Pst, not Est.
Bad players still haven't changed job for something planned 20 minutes ago.
Bad players ask you to change job at the last moment while you've been waiting them for 25 minutes.
Bad players have to mule every time they change job.
Bad players tell you they can't stay while you just finished setting parties.
Bad players forgot they had to save 4 tags.
Bad players always need some AP, and are still PSC ( 'walls anyone ?')
Bad players had pop set... but aren't here tonight.
Bad players cast teleport-Altep while we're trying to claim Tia ('oops srry').
Bad players forgot something fundamental in their mog house.
Bad players don't know the way.
Bad players don't ask the way and try to find it by themselves so you end up searching the stupid place they died at on another map surrounded by deadly mobs.
Bad players didn't noticed they aggro bring you some train.
Bad players finally realize they're still sam/blm once we entered limbus.
Bad players have to go get their kids at school 5 minutes after the pt just started.
Bad players wanna camp Aspid but can't leave their xp party.
Bad players were afk without telling when you popped Byakko.
Bad players were on Genbu's island anyways.
Bad players tend to dc at this point.
Bad players wants the Haidate for their 6th job that will be used 8% of the time.
Bad players have been in ls forever, however they're never here to farm, but have rights to get loot because they've been here forever.

Bad players tell you to keep calm cause it's just a game and you're a fucking moron if you can't understand they are here to relax themselves... because wasting hours waiting for them should be relaxing ( it's a game remember ?).

Bad players represent 80% of FFXI's timesink.
All others are good players.

Oh my God. This. This This This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Sheebs]

It might be constructive if BRP didn't keep popping up every few posts going "but this topic wasn't supposed to be about what constitutes a good player and a bad player - it was created for the discussion of something totally pointless as a roundabout way for me to criticize FFXI for being superficial".

This^^ This this this...

[Eleven19]

Mine was better.

[test123]

When a SAM or DRG holds TP to the very end and unleases for kill shot, making me the tank for the whole fight. I consider them BAD PLAYERS, for BAD TEAMWORK.

When a BLM Burst II at the very end for a kill shot instead of doing steady tier3s, I consider that BLM a BAD PLAYER.

I really don't have to see the mob 20% -> 0% right when I am about to WS.

Do your damage with the most efficient dmg/mp/time/emnity or gtfo.

[Ryko]

Why the hell are people throwing arbitrary anecdotes.

Good players make events run smoother and more quickly.
Bad players do the opposite.

Done? Done.

[BRP]

It might be constructive if BRP didn't keep popping up every few posts going "but this topic wasn't supposed to be about what constitutes a good player and a bad player - it was created for the discussion of something totally pointless as a roundabout way for me to criticize FFXI for being superficial".

What? I only said it once in the first page in response to someone saying 'Okay the thread is over since we figured it out.' If I wasn't interested in what makes good and bad players why did I include that exact question in the OP and in followup questions? And it is only pointless to someone who doesn't care.

and lol at Sheebs for trying to find anything to get against me. That quote train begins with someone disagreeing with you.

[Mizango]

Maybe you can say that when we actually do something together... which will probably never happen since I don't play

Spoiler: show

shit games

Yet we share a passion for Atlus and FFXI. Log on already and lets exp.


I knew BRP would get the last laugh, I told you man. A++

[Kohan]

Bad players are timesink.

Bad players have to mule every time they change job.

The other statements I'm fine with. It goes without saying that everyone makes mistakes occasionally, but anyone who does those things constantly is a bad player.

However, it makes someone bad if they have to mule when they're changing jobs? All right, perhaps every time doesn't make sense -- you can fit a few jobs' worth of gear on your person at any one time -- but this seems a bit ridiculous to me, especially when it comes to people with multiple mage classes.

Of course, someone who's thinking ahead will have multiple mules, and they'll already be stocked with the gear they'll have to DB ASAP. Regardless, they still will have to mule in the first place.

[Halion]

Due to the audience this forum attracts this discussion is more about comparing people who excel at end-game to people who might not even even care about end-game. The depth of FFXI is not visible in that comparison half as much as it is in the difference between someone who excels at end-game versus someone who excels at Chocobo Racing. If you define depth by the amount of persistence it takes to excel at something then this game has depth. If you define depth by having multiple actives which require different skillsets then this game has depth. A "skill gap" need not be part of the discussion, the question, or the answer if you really care about how much depth the game has; most of the social interaction is actually irrelevant as well.
There are too many people who, regardless of their skillset and aptitude, do not play an MMO to excel at any aspect of it and therefore skew the relevance of skill. These kinds of people tend to play together as do those who care about excelling. It creates an artificial gap which is only exacerbated by the constant comparison that one is not subjected to while playing an offline game by yourself. Most games in an RPG style also do not require any skill as part of the point of the genre. They are made purposefully to be winnable with knowledge and practice rather than reflexes or strategy because they value the story and the experience. Game designers however recognize their audience in the people who want to go above and beyond in anything they do which is why even RPGs usually have hard modes or extra special goals.
So compare FFXI as a game to another game, don't compare the people who play it to each other. FFXI has no less depth than your average Square RPG, it may in fact have more simply by being larger in scope.

[_chuchu]

The other statements I'm fine with. It goes without saying that everyone makes mistakes occasionally, but anyone who does those things constantly is a bad player.

However, it makes someone bad if they have to mule when they're changing jobs? All right, perhaps every time doesn't make sense -- you can fit a few jobs' worth of gear on your person at any one time -- but this seems a bit ridiculous to me, especially when it comes to people with multiple mage classes.

Of course, someone who's thinking ahead will have multiple mules, and they'll already be stocked with the gear they'll have to DB ASAP. Regardless, they still will have to mule in the first place.

I have about 80 items/gear I resend to myself :< but I think he may have meant people that don't organize their gear in any sort of sensible fashion. I suppose that yes, most smarter players keep gears sets stored together. When you have too much gear, sometimes muling is unavoidable. I keep at least 2 jobs worth of gear on my mule, the rest stay in my dbox. Not enough space, etc.. Also, if someone has to change jobs, I would expect that they be told ahead of time to save time anyways

[Kohan]

FFXI has no less depth than your average Square RPG, it may in fact have more simply by being larger in scope.

It definitely has more, considering that the average Square RPG nowadays is all about flashy combat sequences, ridiculously designed characters, and little to no interesting plot content.

Aside from that, yes, the gap exists, but has little to do with the longevity of the game, in my opinion. As I'd touched on in my previous post too -- but this is the simplified version -- there are the casuals, and the exceptions. They will always be two different groups.

[shaddix]

I have about 80 items/gear I resend to myself :<

@.@

[Eleven19]

Halion brings up a good point, maybe I was a little overzealous talking about end-game erks.

[Nicholette]

Knowledge of your job.

Knowledge of game mechanics.

Knowledge of mob types and behavior.

Willingness to listen.

These are the things that make a good player.

Add good gear to that and those are the things that make a great player.

Id say half of FFXI players have a reasonable understanding of game mechanics (str/attack/acc calculations, hit rate factors, spell modifiers and enhancers, mob weaknesses and strategies).

The other half neither care to learn, or just havent learned yet.

I know relic plds that dont macro any gear changes for -any- actions.. Some people are happy with the way they play and dont want to change.

It just depends on how serious that person wants to be. There is a big difference between the rdm that is checking the pimped out other rdms and trying to slowly get their best mnd build and enfeebling build, and mimicking the good players they see, and the rdm that wears 3/5ths af and pulls out their sword every event.

Gonna agree with this post in basically every way.

As far as gear goes Haste creates the largest gaps in FFXI, especially tanking, once you have the capped timers keeping hate and keeping from taking damage with shadows. If you remove your haste gear and try to tank something important I think you will find it quite challenging. Haste can really separate players in other areas of the game as well.

As far as a difficult fight, that's not AV, the ToAU beastmen kings can be quite difficult if you do it with just an ally and no aegis/ghorn.

[Max™]

Haste is a huge part of tanking.

Some things feel way easier to tank on War/Nin (17% Haste, 2.5% Fast Cast) than Pld/Nin (12% Haste, 2.5% Fast Cast) for sure cause of that, even with a shield.

[Howard Roark]

I think BRP is looking for a trophy for excelling in a video game. Good luck, buddy.













IT'S A VIDEO GAME!

I ventured out of spam and all I got was this t-shirt with a retarded quote on it

[_chuchu]

I ventured out of spam and all I got was this t-shirt with a retarded quote on it

Come back home, darling, it's raining idiots out there

[Bdawgbud]

I think a big deal on skill is LS's that do not use people who leveled BLM to 75 for the sake of putting it on an application. A common trend in many LS is having nice tanks, nice melee DD, and then a group of BLMs that are total garbage that are just there to gear their melee job. BLMs need to take BLM seriously and not nuke in thier AF1 feet and an Al Zahbi sash. Also Merits reflect time and effort, anyone can get them and they are necessary