The DRG at 75 by Starr

[Gunslinger]

Just a note on "drgs don't need a 6-hit." I hear this a lot, especially on Alla when I stop by the drg forums (not lolAlla bashing, it's just a running theme over there). I simply believe it's not true and not well thought out if you're subbing /sam.

If you have a "true 6-hit" and get a jump, don't you get a 5 hit that round? Or a 4 hit if you use high jump too? Why would you fall a few TP short of 100 for the sake of making it up with a jump when you could be WS'ing that much sooner? If you rely on getting hit for tp, what happens when you don't get hit? Would a SAM not merit sTP because they get hit a lot? The arguments against going for a real 6-hit just don't make a lot of sense to me.

Don't want to argue the point since everyone knows their own needs, but it seems like it's something every drg/DD should strive for. If you don't have the gear, need more acc, or aren't subbing /sam I can see why you wouldn't care about 6-hit. But for meriting, low-man, and other activities I can't see any reason you'd dismiss a real 6-hit- especially on drg where you don't need an acc body like every other melee job. Take advantage of the attack/sTP bodies, no other job really gets that benefit.

[Yugl]

Shin, isn't it counterproductive to argue that DRG doesn't need a 6-Hit Build then go on to say that all DRGs should be near capped ACC? After all, the only argument for the fake Hauby or even the +10 ACC +4sTP Body is the ACC.

[Shinryuu]

The 'capped ACC' thing is only true on birds. It's a seperate discussion, sorry for the mix-up. Obviously, birds aren't the only mobs in the game. That said, sTP/ACC allows for a couple of niche stuff, and STR/DEX are good additions to a DRG w/o aurum cuirass either way.

Wolf:

200 + .9 * 92 + (77 + 2 + 1 + 5 + 4 + 3) * .75 + (2 + 10 + 3 + 10 + 5 + 3 + 7 + 5) + 10 + 22 = 428. (Skill+Skill over 200+DEX+equipment+hasso+traits)

Guess I was a bit off (should stop posting at 5 AM). However, even without hasso that's easily capped ACC.

[Shinryuu]

If you have a "true 6-hit" and get a jump, don't you get a 5 hit that round? Or a 4 hit if you use high jump too?

What I mean is, Jumps get more TP than regular swings. If you'd normally end up with 98 or 99 TP after a tickle, if during that time a Jump is up you'll end up at 100 TP.

By the way, regarding x-hits and DRG:

Gae Bolg + Aurum Cuirass + Rajas + Brutal + /SAM + Carbonara (ruling it out for the poor man for merits) + 2/4 Drakesbane = 5-hit. Is this combo unbeatable? It normally takes 2460 delay to get 100 TP. With Gae, it takes 2204 delay. That's an 11.6% increase in WS frequency. A DRG with a good WS set has a WS/TP ratio of at least 55%, I'd imagine: total increase of 6.38%. Say you get 4 DMG out of fSTR, then the loss of 2 DMG means a reduction of a bit more than 2%. Jumps are without delay, and therefore greatly benefit the Gae setup as well. Meditate doesn't. The 2 DEX is at best 2 ACC, or 1% hitrate, which is at best a little more than a 1% decrease.

Going from Thalasso 6-hit to Gae 5-hit
Ups: 6.38% (using 55% WS/TP ratio) + whatever Jump adds (depends, among other things, on haste).
Downs: 1% hitrate at best, at best 2% crit hit rate (almost never for DRG, usually maybe .5% crit) and a bit over 2% loss of DMG.

The only cost to this is Carbonara, which costs significantly more than Mithkabob. Arrabbiata works if you land 3/4 Drakesbane, too, and that'd be pretty much superior.

[noodles355]

7 Lvl difference, 28Acc penalty. 339 Eva, 75% Acc is 369 Acc. Acc cap is @409 Acc on Lv82 birds. Yes, you're capped. I think I need to re-evaluate some stuff. 374 Acc naked with Thal atm. Need 35 Acc for cap and have 45 in gear. I'm using Nuevo Haub atm, I really dont need it, maybe I'll go back to Ass Jerkin for TP untill I get Askar.

After all, Drg only comes out for solo and some merits. I actually want askar as an upgrade now, I only viewed it as a pretty sidegrade befor. Guess I was wrong.

If you're not going for STP build, Zaide beats Thala, if you are, it wont. I'm undecided still. It looks like it would work on paper, but in practice I can see a lot of TP wasted through Jump TP bonuses, Extra WS hits not accounted for, meditate, and getting hit. However, that same argument can be used to say "well, when all that happens, you have the chance of a 5 hit build", which is fair.

STP and Love Halberd though, Need 23STP for 8 hit build. /Sam+Rajas+Brutal leave you 2stp short, so Aurum or Askar are still needed lol.
Edit: That's for a True 8 hit. In a zerg you should be using Drakes or Penta instead of Wheeling with Love, so you dont need a STP body at all.


The STP argument seems to have been going on for a while. Maybe it's about time someone actually parsed it properly.

[S N K]

Just a note on "drgs don't need a 6-hit." I hear this a lot, especially on Alla when I stop by the drg forums (not lolAlla bashing, it's just a running theme over there). I simply believe it's not true and not well thought out if you're subbing /sam.

That was your 1st mistake.

[noodles355]

That was your 1st mistake.

Not really, the majority of it may be shit, but it has some very useful posters there too. You just gotta know who to bother reading.

[Nameless]

Agreed with the above, you just need to know what to read and what not to read. Not even all the BG posts are worth reading either.

[Wolfknight]

The 'capped ACC' thing is only true on birds. It's a seperate discussion, sorry for the mix-up. Obviously, birds aren't the only mobs in the game. That said, sTP/ACC allows for a couple of niche stuff, and STR/DEX are good additions to a DRG w/o aurum cuirass either way.

Wolf:

200 + .9 * 92 + (77 + 2 + 1 + 5 + 4 + 3) * .75 + (2 + 10 + 3 + 10 + 5 + 3 + 7 + 5) + 10 + 22 = 428. (Skill+Skill over 200+DEX+equipment+hasso+traits)

Guess I was a bit off (should stop posting at 5 AM). However, even without hasso that's easily capped ACC.

so without body or hasso you're 10 acc over me cause of mithra dex/less haste.

[Yugl]

Not to mention his post was against the consensus on Alla.

As for the sTP argument, it seems a key argument against using 6-Hit builds is that you'll typically get hit in a merit situation. However, there is a problem with assuming that ACC will be more beneficial in said situation. If you're doing Colibris, your ACC can easily be capped through gear that won't dramatically change your setup/build. Simply put, it's easy to cap ACC on Colibri, which means ACC won't do anything to increasing your damage output. In addition, if you are getting hit by Colibri and somehow managing to avoid all feather tickles/"Out of range" messages, your sTP build may go to waste.

However, what about those who don't get hit at all? There are plenty of events where you can avoid taking damage and maintain your damage. If that's the case, then wouldn't sTP prove more useful? Sure, you could argue that those same mobs have higher EVAs to some degree, but in most cases, you'll be able to cap ACC (Or be close to capped ACC) through other means.

[Shinryuu]

I don't have a problem with sacrificing ACC for sTP if you're capped on hitrate. Haste, however...

[Vail]

so I'm trying to decide on a body for ACP, and might do it for DRG, only real option (to me) is acc10/STP4 which would allow me to use cletine with a 6hit (16.5 TP per hit, 99tp after 6 hits) I WS with Zahak's mail and Claymore grip, I wear Rajas/Brutal/White-Thatlum for STP gear

would a build like that really work over Thalassocrat?

If not, I'd go with mirke with acc10/DW3% for my thf.

[noodles355]

Get for Thf. Drg has access to askar and aurum for STP bodies. Thf has nothing as good as Acc/DW for /Nin.

[Abandon]

for Wheeling Thrust (yes, I use it from time to time, Hi2u DI), would you use Heca Hands, or go for pure STR with Alky's?

[Shinryuu]

Alky.

[oscurodrago]

just few days ago i finished Gungnir but noting realy changed on my dmg, i made lot of merit pts but i don't understand what happens and why pentatrust and drakesbane have always same low dmg (average damage il 900-1100 only)...

that is my current WS equip...

Main - Gungnir
Sub - Pole Grip
Ammo - Smart Granade
Head - Hecatomb Cap
Body - Zahak's Mail
Hand - Hecatomb Mittens
Legs - Ares's Flanchard
Feet - Hecatomb Leggings
Neck - Love Torque
Back - Forager's Mantle
Waist - Warwolf belt
Rings - Rajas Ring, Flame Ring
Earring - Brutal Earring, Pixie Earring

do you have any suggestion to incrase ws potency.. ; ;

i don't understoond why an Annihilator can make 4k of dmg with barrage and i have big problems to make 1.5k of dmg with a ws ; ;

[Argettio]

Cuchulain's Mantle and sea gorget.

[Zatho]

I'm guessing u were meriting on anything but birds bc the one time I saw the gungnir owner in my server on birds. His gear was prolly a bit worst than yours and it was just f mind blowing.

[BerenTebogo]

just few days ago i finished Gungnir but noting realy changed on my dmg, i made lot of merit pts but i don't understand what happens and why pentatrust and drakesbane have always same low dmg (average damage il 900-1100 only)...

that is my current WS equip...

Main - Gungnir
Sub - Pole Grip
Ammo - Smart Granade
Head - Hecatomb Cap
Body - Zahak's Mail
Hand - Hecatomb Mittens
Legs - Ares's Flanchard
Feet - Hecatomb Leggings
Neck - Love Torque
Back - Forager's Mantle
Waist - Warwolf belt
Rings - Rajas Ring, Flame Ring
Earring - Brutal Earring, Pixie Earring

do you have any suggestion to incrase ws potency.. ; ;

i don't understoond why an Annihilator can make 4k of dmg with barrage and i have big problems to make 1.5k of dmg with a ws ; ;

cuchu + sea gorget as said

what sj? what food? what merits? what camp?

Expecting to break 1.5k with any WS all the time on mamool is unrealistic but I'd also drop the pixie for a Triumph

[avelle]

I'm guessing u were meriting on anything but birds bc the one time I saw the gungnir owner in my server on birds. His gear was prolly a bit worst than yours and it was just f mind blowing.

Wish I could see the Gungnir owner on my server in action. But I have the impression he probably doesn't know how to use it very well. :/