so if PnP RPGs take no skill...

[Beckwin]

...and require the player to put in effort/be creative to get any "challenge" or reward out of playing them...

why is it that PC/console RPGs (mmo and otherwise) are held to different standards when it comes to things not literally given to you in terms of gameplay and whatnot?

[Marcicus]

i had a feeling this was going to be made soon

[Bagel]

Have people been dissin on real RPGs? Cause I'll cut the fucker who badmouths tabletop pen and paper shit. Comparing them to vidya "RPGs" isn't even apples and oranges though, it's like apples and pizza rolls.

[Kiarax]

Nerd.

[Callisto]

what the fuck's a PnP?

[Kiarax]

Pay 'n' play.

[Callisto]

oh

[Callisto]

well I have no experience with that kind of game





































only that kind of woman

[Kiarax]

oh

[Callisto]

So are those like those Korean games I see banner ads for on random webcomic sites and such?

[Ruuz]

PnP is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different from computer rpg. The amount of creativity you can add when you are playing pnp is worlds away from what electronic rpgs/mmos allow. What is nice about mmo's is they allow you to do the grinding for gear and gold on your own time instead of whenever your gaming group can meet up.

I for one only get to play DnD4e like twice a month, so level progression is really slow, however, I can get on FFXI and progress however fast I want (at a speed determined by game mechanics instead of rl).

Also, not having to look at 4+ other people that look just as ugly as yourself is a plus.

[Callisto]

oh

[Beckwin]

PnP is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different from computer rpg. The amount of creativity you can add when you are playing pnp is worlds away from what electronic rpgs/mmos allow. What is nice about mmo's is they allow you to do the grinding for gear and gold on your own time instead of whenever your gaming group can meet up.

I for one only get to play DnD4e like twice a month, so level progression is really slow, however, I can get on FFXI and progress however fast I want (at a speed determined by game mechanics instead of rl).

Also, not having to look at 4+ other people that look just as ugly as yourself is a plus.

So you're basically saying that the PnP experience revolves around the creativity and interpersonal relationships among the players, yet when it comes to player-invented challenges and the integral social element of certain PC/console RPGs, it all the sudden doesn't count?

[Callisto]

So you're basically saying that the PnP experience revolves around the creativity and interpersonal relationships among the players, yet when it comes to player-invented challenges and the integral social element of certain PC/console RPGs, it all the sudden doesn't count?

yeah



that and weiners

[BRP]

[so if PnP RPGs take no skill]...and require the player to put in effort/be creative to get any "challenge" or reward out of playing them...

why is it that PC/console RPGs (mmo and otherwise) are held to different standards when it comes to things not literally given to you in terms of gameplay and whatnot?

First off, to say all PnP RPGs don't take skill is silly. How much skill is required is based on the system(DnD for example has wargaming origins and still stands on those merits) and the DM's flexibility.

Now there are RPGs with no battle systems or dice. They are rare, but they exist. How are these games? Well they still have rules and a goal. Tabletop RPGs have their own genres and subgenres too. When in comparison to videogames we only talk about the core idea that relates every RPG: the role-playing. Still, most RPGs have a flavor of wargaming in them. So when trying to simulate these games on computer we get...

PC/Console RPGs are Strategy games first(and sometimes only a Strategy game.) This is almost always the case. There is a game like Deus Ex which is an Action/RPG and I am sure if you looked hard enough you'll find other hybrids. And what you will find are will only be hybrids. This is because of the limitations of hardware and software and videogame design at this point. I imagine it would take a powerful AI to ever bring about a true RPG on a computer. That will be cool. Until it goes rogue and kills all the humans.

Each genre has their own purpose and goals. That's what really what sets them apart. Depth in a strategy game is going to mean something different than depth in a Role Playing games. In a strategy game it is about options to attack your opponent or defend yourself or something of that nature. In Role Playing games it is going to be your options to react and change your setting. It is literally writing a story as it happens. Hmmm... that's not quite the best description, but it'll have to do because I am too tired right now to think about this any harder.

Why do we hold them at different standards? For computer games' sake! I mean if we compared a game like Baulder's Gate to a decent DM doing a Forgotten Realms game... its like playing with a retard who can't think about more than 3 or 4 things at once. If we focus on something computers can do competently like battle systems and graphics they stand a chance. When they add these cute attempts to imitate role-playing games we end up with a slightly more immersing experience. Sure, nothing as deep as DnD with a good DM, but it still makes for a better experience overall. Sadly computer RPGs haven't really moved forward after the late 90s... but I've already explained that in another thread.


EDIT: Oh and I should probably mention this. There are games like Neverwinter Nights with a multiplayer system that has a DM. These are held separate from the game. They are more like RPG tools which are not games. The big difference here is that the player is doing the computer/designers' job.

[Callisto]

yeah, no

[Beckwin]

yeah, no

pretty much

brp, you can be totally shitty at DnD and still "succeed" hence, no inherent skill is required. how "hard" the game is, how good the story is/how engrossing the environment is... it's entirely dependent on the players involved, just like computer/console rpgs have so much going on dependent on the players- their in-game choices, their meta-game choices, and the social networking choices/interactions.

NWN is currently pretty much the extreme example of this, but there are lesser degrees in most games- take FFT's highly-developed realm of player-created challenges (and now re-designs via code editing), or the integral and intense (serious business) social interactions of basically any MMORPG.

[Genosync]

Party game.

[BRP]

Party game.

true dat

[Kiarax]

Party game.

lol