ACP Body Augments - Monk

[Balrock246]

Is this recommend over togi then? because anything to get me away from that damn thing i'd give it a try...sick of looking at that damn thing since usu body is like...10 years away. would that -10 attack not matter at all? ( i seriously don't feel like reading thru that crap)

Yes, as Milich concluded in his post, the ACP body w/ +10 att/acc beats NQ togi in damage and is tied with usu body (when not 5/5). The str and dex of the ACP make up for the 10 att lost from switching from togi.

However as someone in this thread pointed out, HQ togi was not tested. But if you really want to know if HQ is better, simply follow Milich's post and put the HQ values in and run the numbers.

I don't know about other monks, but i tend to get better results out of HF and DK then asuran. and i think HF and DK can crit. i still don't think it's worth putting crit on it tho.

I agree on both counts. I usually get better HF then AF and don't think the crit augment is worth it.

[Shin Volcano]

You'll be pretty hard pressed trying to get a HQ togi to test it, i wouldn't even bother honestly. (time for another tower climb)

This may be a wild guess, but there next 2 said parts to this may include head/legs/hands or feet as a upgradable peice :l just a guess tho.

[Crouchingllama]

top:
Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI

specifically: (bah just realized this is the same link that Balrock246 posted, oops)
Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI

Milich wrote:
preliminary conclusions: enkidu's is a sidegrade from togi. this new body is an upgrade from togi, but sidegrade from the super expensive usu body. so, usu body is for 5/5 seekers, people who already have it, or people getting a different reward for a different job. togi and enkidu's are for people getting a different reward for another job.

[Ruuz]

I really wish Milich/Pahn would post on BG more. I guess he kinda likes his status on Alla though. At least Vegetto is here.

Also, even though it is Sath, proposing Crit +3% as opposed to 10Att makes me sad. NQ Haub or nothing (10Acc/10Att). Also, DEX/Crit builds in general for MNK make me sad.

[Starr]

I'm no MNK but I would have though 10 ACC 3% Crit was good

[BerenTebogo]

I'm no MNK but I would have though 10 ACC 3% Crit was good

Makes sense for me DPS wise since MNK is a DPS job.

I was discounting the WS crit because I consider MNK to be like a good DD NIN, where your WS damage is like icing on a cake but ultimately marginal.

Had I not had access to haub +1, usukane body, koga body, and AF+1 body as NIN and only had access to Enkidu's or Shura (aka if FFXI was a different game) I'd probably have done ACC10 Crit+3%

ATT has severely diminishing effects on DPS. I acknowledge that crit similarly diminishing returns but I would honestly like to see some solid over-time math to discount one or the other.

It's one of those things where if you're getting it for Asuran: do A if you're getting it for HF: do B if you're getting it for DPS: do C

Feel free to correct my misunderstanding of MNK, because I don't have it leveled, but as far as I understand it: DPS > WS damage, all the time every time.

[shaddix]

I am confused why attack has diminishing effects on dps

[BerenTebogo]

I'm assuming either 2x Minuet or Chaos + Meat. So 10 ATT vs 3% Crit rate. I'm not going to argue semantics. I admit that I'm not the expert here and am just going to sit quietly with my Thorny beacon lit.

But 10ATT outdoing 3% crit at full buffs would shock the fuck out of me, honestly.

[Crouchingllama]

in the same thread/post, Milich wrote:

, usu is 2.65% DoT, about a wash with 8ATT. a bit more accurately, you'd factor in 3.5 75% of the time, 1.8 25% of the time, and get 3% DoT, averaging around the high end of 8ATT's contribution.

basically, it's either a win for usu, or a wash, with the sTP likely tipping the scales for usu. if usu gets very unlucky (3STR doesn't raise base dmg, only 3ACC advantage, opponent has lots of DEF), the haub thing wins. this would be rare however.

---

preliminary conclusions: enkidu's is a sidegrade from togi. this new body is an upgrade from togi, but sidegrade from the super expensive usu body. so, usu body is for 5/5 seekers, people who already have it, or people getting a different reward for a different job. togi and enkidu's are for people getting a different reward for another job.

---

edit: by the way, after checking other boards, i'm warming up to the idea of "i will get this if i can drop it and request when i get usu body." also, i find it a bit odd that the new mission reward would come in possibly the strongest slot for almost every job (except us, what up BB).

[Ruuz]

The whole diminishing returns thing, while true, is still kinda.....................

The way of thinking about it (in rather absurd terms) is that adding a pebble to a mountain affects the mass of the mountain less than it effects the mass of say, an ant hill.

True, at high pDIF, 10 Att may be less than 3% crit. However, I believe as MNK you will find yourself in want of more Att almost always.

Cause I am way too lazy to compute it all out by hand, I plug this gear into my handy dandy TP damage spreadsheet:

Tiphia Sting
W. Turban
PCC
Brutal Earring
Hollow Earring
ACP Body
Noritsune Kote (Bando w/ Focus)
2x Toreador's Rings
Forager's Mantle
Black Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Fuma Sune-Ate

on 81 Birds with full h2h merits, crit merits (~9% base crit), ka merits spamming mithkabobs these are the tp dmg/sec I get:

10 Att = 31.8
3 Crit = 31.77

10 Att w/Focus = 37.65
3 Crit w/Focus = 37.62

Of course, while this is just TP, WS over time will lean more towards 10Att (unless you choose to macro in Shura for WS, which you could do, but you are still loosing 2-3Acc and 1fSTR).

Now lets try with +114Att from capped Min/Min (I think these are the caps, wiki may be wrong):

10 Att = 40.91
3 Crit = 40.89

10 Att w/Focus = 47.88
3 Crit w/Focus = 47.85

So really, no matter how I work it, 3 Crit always seems to have less TP dmg/sec than 10Att. Afterall, I would probably much rather have 20Att on Destroyers than 6% crit.

disclaimer: I dont want to pull a genome here, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel as though others have already shown the same thing anyways.

Also, just for kicks I tried out +2%DA, and got this for the min/min:

2 DA = 40.83
2 DA w/Focus = 47.82

Of course, DA will over time generate more TP, but I feel that it is far enough behind in dmg/sec that that would not allow it to catch up.

[Tyramut]

If you want a body piece just for epic utsusemi macros, wouldn't it be Evasion + Fast Cast?

Nah, +acc for counter. Either works as a 2nd stat but that's just my preference.

[Cream Soda]

If you want a body piece just for epic utsusemi macros, wouldn't it be Evasion + Fast Cast?

No, the 10 acc is to help land counters. If your acc is uncapped and you drop 10 acc, you're lowering your counter rate.


Edit: beaten to it

[Valisk]

Edit: beaten to it

By an hour and 5 mins >.>

10 acc + 3% crit

[Shinryuu]

3% crit is equal to 2% DA when you have 1.5 pDIF and a crit WS and your WS can DA (assuming fulltime). For MNK, neither is the case, so 2% DA is still equal to crit+3% at 1.5 pDIF. You're usually above that, so 2% DA wins. Whether 2% DA beats 10 attack depends on more factors.

[drwaffles]

I'm hardly qualified to judge, but is STR+5 DEX+5 Double Attack+2 really likely to beat Attack+20 for TPing?

[Shinryuu]

Yeah.

[BerenTebogo]

I stand corrected and oblivious.

Orochi Lede's posts this morning left some residue of gay in my eyes, you'll have to excuse me until I find a chemical shower.

[Khajit]

Anyone done the calulations for hades santi+1 for mnk with that? I'm not a mnk. I'm just wondering if anyone remembered that option since the santi are supposed to be either equal or stronger depending on gear/mob.

[Ruuz]

Last I checked, Hades Sainti is almost always better than Destroyers. Also, since all of these traits scale linearly, adding more Acc does not do anything to increase/decrease how much better each is. Criticals and Attack both increase per punch damage, it's just that 10 Attack seems to increase it more than 3 Crit. If we were looking at 5-6 Crit it may be a different ballgame. Still, MNK is always safe gearing with Acc/Att and STR (until fSTR caps).

If I had a pair of Hades Sainti +1 Id totally wear them, but alas I dont.......

[Ruuz]

And don't worry Sath, it really isnt much difference. I'm sure I would make far worse decisions trying to gear PLD.