Death Blossom

[The Blackrose]

This is not a new piece of information. There are already several reports (even on BG) regarding effectiveness of Death Blossom on Sky Gods.

Let's take a look at Cerberus, there is an easier and better way to build TP other than using opo/sleep pot.

Same principle can be applied to Wyrm fights such as Tiamat and Ouryu. It doesn't take Avesta-level solo skill to make it work, practically any sane player can do it.

Unfortunately a lot of the so called elite players don't even know how to modify their strategy to make use of these spell/JA, even if they turn out to have significant effect on HNMs.

Here's an idea: go out and do it. Put out some numbers and some results for once.

Wait, all you do is spout rhetoric all day without actually doing something practical.

The onus is on you to do all of this that you keep talking about. I am not giving you an opportunity to threadshit on another thread involving this subject, sullying something that may be potentially viable. Get out. Now.

[Yugl]

Here's an idea: go out and do it. Put out some numbers and some results for once.

Wait, all you do is spout rhetoric all day without actually doing something practical.

How can he test something when he doesn't even play FFXI? You're so ignorant.

[Izzy]

The impression I got is that the poster has either never played RDM or has no idea what RDM is capable of.

You're right, I know nothing about this game. Maybe you could provide evidence that proves me wrong? Oh, you don't have any. No problem, because I'm fresh out of give a shit too! Check back later and I might have some and we can trade.

Put up or shut up. Seriously... This is the 300th time someone has told you.

[Talint]

What really annoy me are ppl who think it's impossible to make practical use of DB (and enspell), esp on this endgame forum where most viewers are supposed to be familiar with high level endgame stuffs

http://www.itadakiproject.com/rikerfacepalm.jpg

[The Blackrose]

How can he test something when he doesn't even play FFXI? You're so ignorant.

I see what you did there. And that was the hidden part of my punch line, you bastard.

[TummieGaruda]

To me it sounds ok on paper, but that RDM would be too busy with regular RDM duties that you would have to keep one slot open for 2-3 rdm's that you could rotate in to re-apply Death Blossom and then drop from the pt while they TP on nearby mobs. Until a group/ls are able to do this, and have results that show this method actually improves the fight itself in some form, there probably won't be much of any support to the idea.

[Ahlah]

You're right, I know nothing about this game. Maybe you could provide evidence that proves me wrong? Oh, you don't have any. No problem, because I'm fresh out of give a shit too! Check back later and I might have some and we can trade.

Put up or shut up. Seriously... This is the 300th time someone has told you.

I think you still don't get my point.

The OP posted his/her experience with Sky Gods and you immediately start bashing the idea and claim that even if DB works it's only limited to short fight unless you have opo necklace RDMs who drown themselves with sleep pots.

Why do you keep asking for evidence to prove that DB actually works when you don't think it's practical for RDM to build TP and do WS on HNM? DB can have 100% magic accuracy and still be completely useless if all RDM don't even know how to build TP on VT trolls with their swords.


I actually logged in last week to test enspellII on puddings. Was really annoying because I don't have macros saved on server and without spellcast I have to manually change gear. Didn't get any conclusive result - cast first silence immediately after 100TP DB and it landed even when I accidentally switched to HQ ice staff but it also got resisted once after 300TP DB with full enfeebling gear. Ran out of shihei and Thunder IV got me. Enstone II was doing 40-60 damage and I wasn't wearing any enhancing magic gear and flan dies fairly quickly (3-4 DB). I was forced to hold back to keep mob alive in order to test DB and silence. I think 5 RDM/NIN (joyuse only) + BRD (double march) can actually keep chain going nonstop and RDM can take care of themselves.

[Dimmauk]

I think you still don't get my point.

The OP posted his/her experience with Sky Gods and you immediately start bashing the idea and claim that even if DB works it's only limited to short fight unless you have opo necklace RDMs who drown themselves with sleep pots.

Why do you keep asking for evidence to prove that DB actually works when you don't think it's practical for RDM to build TP and do WS on HNM? DB can have 100% magic accuracy and still be completely useless if all RDM don't even know how to build TP on VT trolls with their swords.


I actually logged in last week to test enspellII on puddings. Was really annoying because I don't have macros saved on server and without spellcast I have to manually change gear. Didn't get any conclusive result - cast first silence immediately after 100TP DB and it landed even when I accidentally switched to HQ ice staff but it also got resisted once after 300TP DB with full enfeebling gear. Ran out of shihei and Thunder IV got me. Enstone II was doing 40-60 damage and I wasn't wearing any enhancing magic gear and flan dies fairly quickly (3-4 DB). I was forced to hold back to keep mob alive in order to test DB and silence. I think 5 RDM/NIN (joyuse only) + BRD (double march) can actually keep chain going nonstop and RDM can take care of themselves.

Melee RDM Burn! Sounds awesome!

[Raineer]

Optimal Death Blossom build?

Justice Sword, Muse Tariqah, Tiphia Sting
Morrigan's Coronal, Snow Gorget, Suppanomimi, Diabolos' Earring
Morrigan's Robe, Alkyoneus's Bracelets, Rajas Ring, Mars's Ring
Cuchulain's Mantle, Potent Belt, Morrigan's Slops, Morrigan's Pigaches

Why Alky bracelets? Not sure -DEX is the goal for landing the WS.

I think you want all +acc if you're a redmage trying to land a WS on an HMN.
I'd probably have O.Hat, PCC/PCA, Life Belt and the like.

[Dimmauk]

Why Alky bracelets? Not sure -DEX is the goal for landing the WS.

I think you want all +acc if you're a redmage trying to land a WS on an HMN.
I'd probably have O.Hat, PCC/PCA, Life Belt and the like.

It has STR and MND mods. -Dex wont hurt a one handed weapon like it does a 2 handed.

Edited cause i was thinking of Expiacion Mods.

[Max™]

MOTHERFUCKING SEA GORGETS, ARGGGGHHH!

Seriously though, did you just suggest a party of meleeing Rdm's to rotate DB and debuffs?

You must have just popped chainspell and subbed /Drk, because I am stunned.

[Ahlah]

Don't need to rotate RDM to dump TP on HNM, this is not Kirin fight back in 2001 >.>;

Whole idea of magic evasion down is for RDM and BRD to land debuffs, just drop DB when mage need to reapply debuffs or when BLMs are ready to nuke (e.g. Tiamat and Ouryu)

[Ohemgee]

I think you still don't get my point.

The OP posted his/her experience with Sky Gods and you immediately start bashing the idea and claim that even if DB works it's only limited to short fight unless you have opo necklace RDMs who drown themselves with sleep pots.

Why do you keep asking for evidence to prove that DB actually works when you don't think it's practical for RDM to build TP and do WS on HNM? DB can have 100% magic accuracy and still be completely useless if all RDM don't even know how to build TP on VT trolls with their swords.


I actually logged in last week to test enspellII on puddings. Was really annoying because I don't have macros saved on server and without spellcast I have to manually change gear. Didn't get any conclusive result - cast first silence immediately after 100TP DB and it landed even when I accidentally switched to HQ ice staff but it also got resisted once after 300TP DB with full enfeebling gear. Ran out of shihei and Thunder IV got me. Enstone II was doing 40-60 damage and I wasn't wearing any enhancing magic gear and flan dies fairly quickly (3-4 DB). I was forced to hold back to keep mob alive in order to test DB and silence. I think 5 RDM/NIN (joyuse only) + BRD (double march) can actually keep chain going nonstop and RDM can take care of themselves.

I don't think Izzy (or anyone for that matter) think that melee rdm's are the new paradigm as you continually preach about. Yes it works on Cerberus, fantastic, now get back to refreshing hasting and status curing, there's no need for a sinkpool (I swear to God if you say a RDM can keep up with themselves with buffs I will slap you) to be meleeing for such an abstract cause. Yes DB is an abstract justification for RDM melee because while they're struggling to get TP to be effective, you know, a SAM could easily be in his place and simply outperform a RDM melee, wouldn't that be grand?

[Dimmauk]

I'm totally going RDM/SAM to the next HNM.

LOL @ Wiki

Historical Background

Death Blossom is a term originally from the 1984 movie "The Last Starfighter" in which a fighter pilot fires all weapons indiscriminately in several directions. It was later adopted by the US military during Operation Iraqi Freedom, again meaning to unleash a hail of fire indiscriminately.


I want to fire all weapons indiscriminately in several directions on HNMs

[Yugl]

Come on guys your IQ just isn't high enough to understand the technical complexity of his ingenious plan.

[Kaylia]

-Dex wont hurt a one handed weapon like it does a 2 handed.

Edited cause i was thinking of Expiacion Mods.

What do you mean by this?


I understand you're refering to the dex:acc ratio, but because of this, 1-h weapons always have less accuracy than 2-h weapons, and normally, you will need even more accuracy to reach the cap.

I can't tell you which piece is the best, but losing 3.5accuracy (even more if you consider what you could get from another piece) is rarely a good idea, unless your hit rate is almost capped. Well, assuming landing your hit is what you want.

[Ahlah]

I don't think Izzy (or anyone for that matter) think that melee rdm's are the new paradigm as you continually preach about. Yes it works on Cerberus, fantastic, now get back to refreshing hasting and status curing, there's no need for a sinkpool (I swear to God if you say a RDM can keep up with themselves with buffs I will slap you) to be meleeing for such an abstract cause. Yes DB is an abstract justification for RDM melee because while they're struggling to get TP to be effective, you know, a SAM could easily be in his place and simply outperform a RDM melee, wouldn't that be grand?

OK it's important to assume that Death Blossom +/- MB allows well-geared BRD and RDM to land debuff without elemental seal, (otherwise it's pointless to continue the discussion).

It's justified to bring a melee RDM whose main duty is to focus on building TP to perform DB for magic evasion down and leave the haste/refresh roles to others since you only need one BRD/WHM (instead of 2-3 BRD/BLM) to land Elegy and another RDM to focus on debuffs. RDM is already a near perfect job. It will be overpowered if a single RDM is allowed to perform all the duties including melee and DB. This is the main reason why Composure inflicts recast penalty to prevent skilled RDMs from exploiting the JA. The concept of melee RDM is to support your tank party through consistent debuffs such as Elegy and SlowII/ParalyzeII, it has nothing to do with damage output.

Most LS use manaburn to take down Wyrm which are well known for their high resistance to elemental nukes. DB will greatly benefit the whole alliance if it can significantly reduce the resist rate.

[Binkie]

I had the idea to try the 300 TP Death Blossom on Byakko a few months ago. Gettting 300 TP before the fight and pretty sure that i would just miss, i was surprised i actually landed one hit.

Let the slows and elegies reign forth!

... both got resisted anyways. I got the "... magic evasion down effect wears off" message too. Had full enfeebling merits and HQ staff at the time. Fail

[Dimmauk]

What do you mean by this?


I understand you're refering to the dex:acc ratio, but because of this, 1-h weapons always have less accuracy than 2-h weapons, and normally, you will need even more accuracy to reach the cap.

I can't tell you which piece is the best, but losing 3.5accuracy (even more if you consider what you could get from another piece) is rarely a good idea, unless your hit rate is almost capped. Well, assuming landing your hit is what you want.

Shit is situational. He had that build in an Optimal DB build. I'm guessing for harder to hit Mobs, you would switch out more Mods for more Acc.

[Ohemgee]

OK it's important to assume that Death Blossom +/- MB allows well-geared BRD and RDM to land debuff without elemental seal, (otherwise it's pointless to continue the discussion).

It's justified to bring a melee RDM whose main duty is to focus on building TP to perform DB for magic evasion down and leave the haste/refresh roles to others since you only need one BRD/WHM (instead of 2-3 BRD/BLM) to land Elegy and another RDM to focus on debuffs. RDM is already a near perfect job. It will be overpowered if a single RDM is allowed to perform all the duties including melee and DB. This is the main reason why Composure inflicts recast penalty to prevent skilled RDMs from exploiting the JA. The concept of melee RDM is to support your tank party through consistent debuffs such as Elegy and SlowII/ParalyzeII, it has nothing to do with damage output.

Most LS use manaburn to take down Wyrm which are well known for their high resistance to elemental nukes. DB will greatly benefit the whole alliance if it can significantly reduce the resist rate.

So you know..bring an army of specialists to HNMs? I don't mean to mock you or carry on, but this isn't an elaborate operation where certain jobs specify for a specific goal aside from tanks, its 2006 HNMs in a 2009 world.