A few questions regarding Endgame BLM

[Lekotas]

A few topics have come up for debate in my Ls, I didn't bother trolling the forum for these answers because we've tested them out in several instances and couldn't find a clear cut response to any of them, so I figured why not just ask BG >.>?

Anyways, these questions are in regards to endgame BLM nuking specifically v HNM, sky god, etc.

1) Is elemental magic cap @ 320 or 330?(note: we've done both haven't noticed a significant resist rate decreases from 330 v 320)

2) Is maxing said cap worth it for resist rates versus just using a straight +int build?(note: the argument arose from ouryu some of our members just went with int setups and were getting less resistance, no day/weather bonus, than members using elemental skill setups)

3) Does Ug. pendant latent stack with sorc ring? (note: some of our members have tested this out, we've noticed a slight increase 20-30 dmg, when both are on and both latents are active, but it doesn't make sense since ug pendant should add +8mab which should have increased it significantly more over sorc ring, while others claim that UG pendant's latent affect overrides sorc ring, and have noticed dmg decrease, wtf?)

[Enedin]

1) BLM elemental caps at 276. There is no magic number, it depends on mob.
2) Good question.
3) Dunno why they wouldn't stack.

[Ultimagi]

There's no cap to skill, intelligence, or magic accuracy. They only start to have less effect the more you pile on. The best way to ensure your magic lands is to optimize the most of every stat you can in every equipment slot. Instead of focusing on needing 320 or 330 elemental skill, you should worry about whether you should equip 4 intelligence or 15 elemental magic skill on your hands, or 10 intelligence verses 5 elemental magic skill on your body. In the end, there's only a few slots that are a tossup, and for those you need to adjust based on what you're missing more, making up for you weaknesses before you focus on your strengths. Sorcerer's Ring and Uggalepih Pendant do stack.

[Hogie]

Ill try my best to help

1. I have always gone by 320. Now one thing i have never tested is do you need 320 or 321 to be at the / over that cap (Edit: Sorry there is no CAP to skill, but if your asking about the "Magic Number" then thats my answer)

2. When i nuke higher things (Tia, Ouryu, B2, Sky Gods / Kirin) I go with 320 Elemental skill and then pump INT as much as possible. I have never tried a full INT build (Errant body over Weskit, Prudence over Ele Torque) but once you have some of the better elemental skill pieces you can use this type of setup and it works wonder.

3. Ugg Pendent and Sorc ring do stack, but if you were using them on Ouryu you may not notice much of a change with Ugg Pendent because 8 MAB on a 500dmg nuke isnt very much.

[Lekotas]

Well when we tested out the Ug pendant w/ sorc ring it was on marids/puddings, but it still didn't seem like the dmg bonus was what it should have been, but we may have done the math wrong.

As clarification, I didn't mean to put "Cap" but rather I'm guessing 320+ elemental magic skill breaks another resistance tier on HNM etc.

Most of our Ls has well geared blm's, relic hats, hq gear, ele torques, working on prudences now but they are stingy bastards <.<

Anyways, anymore comments and answers are welcome, I'ma test everything out eventually anyways, I just wanna see if anyone can give any specific examples of their elemental resistance nuking build as well.

[Thunder]

Going to go on a limb, and say that all of this "just get 320/120 and put mab everywhere else" is bullshit, mobs' stats fluctuate, you'll never stay at the same number between mobs, ever. 321/121 is as much better than 320/120 as 320/120 is better than 319/119.

I wouldn't go comparing numbers, but gear.
Also, just put int/macc/skill where you can, using pendant/sorc or novio/moldy is your choice.

[Jordaan]

321/121 is as much better than 320/120 as 320/120 is better than 319/119

Not necessarily. If you're already at the cap, adding more skill/int (in terms of the macc it would give) will do nothing. The 1 int in your example would obviously still add damage.

[Raineer]

Not necessarily. If you're already at the cap, adding more skill/int (in terms of the macc it would give) will do nothing. The 1 int in your example would obviously still add damage.

So you're still going off the assumption that 320 is actually a cap and there is no needed skill beyond that?

[Fogo]

Much of it really has to do with what you're fighting. I like the 320/120 numbers myself, however, that number never felt comfortable on gods (old days of MB's, how i miss them), and i often actually tried to get 330 for those cause it seemed to help resist rates. On xp sized mobs, anything over 300 ele skill is icing, you're far better off with int/mab. So yeah, it's situational, but in general on big mobs, 320/120 is a good number to shoot for on average.

[Raineer]

So yeah, it's situational

I agree with how you worded the whole post there. I just don't like how 320 is becoming accepted as a "cap" nowadays. You only need what's needed, naturally.

I felt little improvement over 324 enfeebling for the longest time, but then there's the occasional bind or whatever which seems to benefit from max skill.

[Jordaan]

So you're still going off the assumption that 320 is actually a cap and there is no needed skill beyond that?

I wasn't talking about the actual number to reach cap. I was pointing out that more acc when you're at the cap doesn't do anything.

[Argettio]

Based on Kanican - Scholar Guide (Part IV)

The first aim should be to get your INT more than 10 over the Target INT, until you reach this point, you will get the best returns from stacking more INT. (think Kirin here)

Once you reach the point when dINT> +10, the returns from stacking INT are halved (from a resist point of view). So you then add as much elemental skill as you think you need to floor your resist rate.

Based on the speculation that most 'nukable' HNMs have ~100-110 INT, is where the 120INT of the 320/120 comes from.

As for how much skill you need to reach the point of diminishing returns... I personally don't know, but I know it will vary depending on your target.

NB.
If any one regularly nukes the HNMs could you use this to estimate their INT value?

[Sylvrdragon]

The 320/110 build (sometimes 320/120, etc) is the minimum recommended goal for several standard HNMs. It won't work for everything though. The reason for the INT is that most HNMs won't have more than 100-110 INT, and so, since you get 1 M.ACC per INT until you are 10+ over your targets, each of those INT gives you 1 full M.ACC. Any INT over that is only .5 M.ACC. That means that once you are 10 over the target mob's INT, you'll be more ACC from Skill/M.ACC gear directly.

I would think that you would wanna make your INT cap first as it is both DMG and ACC in the same stat, and in most cases is easier to get than Skill/M.ACC. Once you reach that cap though, remember that it drops significantly in importance (for an Accuracy build, not damage), and that Skill/M.ACC become far better. If you're going to go over one of the target numbers, then on most mobs, you want the overkill on the Skill/M.ACC side.

In accordance with the "Shit is situational" Law, I must also mention that their are obviously exceptions to this rule. Which is to say that some mobs go over the 100-110 INT mark, and so your INT returns will not fall off as fast. Grand Wyrms and Kirin are good examples. For mobs like these, you may potentially get better returns from a "Super INT" Build.

I would like to note, however, that even with the Super INT build, AF Gloves are still better than any INT option for hands, Elemental Torque will still perform better than P.Torque (for resists, not damage), and an Elemental Earring will still be better than 2 INT Earring. To put it simple, the only pieces you replace for a Super INT build are the ones that give more INT/M.ACC than Elemental/M.ACC. Goliard Feet over Nashira, Ixion Cape over Merciful (These actually tie in terms of M.ACC, but the INT will also raise your damage).

The above is based on the following:

1 INT = 1 M.ACC when INT ≤ Mob INT+10
1 INT = .5 M.ACC when INT ≥ Mob INT+10
1 Skill = 1 M.ACC

The best setup that I can conceive of for accuracy against a high INT mob is the following:

Main: Elemental Staff
Sub: Elemental Grip
Ammo: Aureole
Head: Sorcerer's Petasos
Neck: Elemental Torque
Ear: Elemental Earring
Ear: Morion+1/Phantom+1/Omniscient (Racial Earring if applicable)
Body: Mahatma Houppelande
Hands: Wizard's Gloves +1
Ring: Omega Ring
Ring: Snow/Omniscient (Not counting an active Balrahn's, which would otherwise be here)
Back: Ixion/Gleeman's Cape
Waist: Witch Sash
Legs: Morrigan's Slops
Feet: Goliard Clogs

INT +48
Skill + 35
M.ACC + 17

It may seem counter-intuitive that in this "Super INT" build, you are actually giving up 3 INT, but you are gaining 5 M.ACC (Omega and Witch Sash over Snow and Sorcerer's), but if you're going for Accuracy, there is no doubt that it will perform better.

It's actually pretty ironic that this build only puts a Hume or Mithra at 117 INT before Food or Merits. Of course, Aureole isn't likely for most, so I'll say 119 assuming a Phantom Tathlum. "Super INT" is probably not a good name for it. Either that, or the previous standard "Super INT" build was based on old information and used inferior gear choices. Despite the name of the Build, things you don't want to do (if you have the option) are things like Demon+1 over Sorc. Petasos, Prudence Torque over Elemental Torque, 2INT Earring over Elemental Earring, Errant/Mahatma Cuffs over AF Hands (even NQ are better), Snow Ring over Omega, Sorcerer's Belt over Witch Sash, or Bugard Strap+1 over Elemental Grip. It doesn't matter HOW much INT the mob has, M.ACC is the stat you're REALLY aiming for here.

Actually, from this point on, let's just assume that "Super INT" is referring to the mob's and not the character's.

Please keep in mind that the above setup is for extremely high INT mobs. For regular grade HNMs like Kings and Cerb etc. this amount of INT is overkill. You will hit the point of diminishing returns (where 1 INT = .5 M.ACC) and you will be better off reverting back to the skill equivalent (Merciful, Nashira, Weskit namely) assuming you are still going for an Accuracy build. Also, this setup will not yield the most potential damage per nuke, but will reduce Resists and, as such, increase your damage over time.

[pchan]

330 skill 120 int > 320 skill 120 int. 120 INT is the probably due to the fact that fafnir has 110 INT which is as low as ... imps. Anything that cast has probably higher INT; so elemental magic is always the best option to reduce resists. There is no "tier" for resist, either you cap or not. Do you cap on kirin with 320/120 ? No, you'll get 50% at best.

[Elondir]

The answer for skill/macc/int varies on what mob you're fighting and also your base stats (i.e. what race you are). As an Elf BLM I use ele torque, af2 hat, af1+1 hands and now ACP body with macc/matk +4 with 8/8 ele merits for my ele set up, very rarely get resists free nuking on sissy kings, and most of the time will land pretty well against Tia and Kirin (if other BLMs aren't nuking slightly ahead of me).

For tarus, you'll find you can use more MAB than INT once you hit 320ish skill, but as an elf I find that extra int helps a fair bit.

For MBing, there's not much I don't use MATK gear for, just have merits and af2 hat for skill.

[Fridell]

Not necessarily. If you're already at the cap, adding more skill/int (in terms of the macc it would give) will do nothing. The 1 int in your example would obviously still add damage.

Totally false.
If one can go beyond the 320 skill 120 INT standards DO IT, because i HELPS.
Really, imo ppl tend to use this 320 / 120 thing as some kind of solution for everything, while in reality, experimenting and trying and testing each battle (that matters) what the best setups are. That's why any serious BLM should have lots of alternatives for each equipment.

[Julian]

The 320/120 thing is bullshit.

I've personally gotten better results from stacking INT, but that's only on hard stuff that resists. Everything else I just use my maximum damage setup, fuck wearing stupid shit like af2 hat.

[Raineer]

The 320/120 thing is bullshit.

I've personally gotten better results from stacking INT, but that's only on hard stuff that resists. Everything else I just use my maximum damage setup, fuck wearing stupid shit like af2 hat.

I do the same thing with RDM enfeebles, only piece of skill gear I tend to use is AF2 hat (sleeps/binds excepted).

The difference is that I can recast my debuffs a lot faster and a lot more cheaply than a resisted nuke. I was only taking exception to calling 320 a "cap", the most accuracy you can get is the most skill you can get...there's your "cap".

[Valyana]

If any one regularly nukes the HNMs could you use this to estimate their INT value?

That would be great.

[Kaeko]

Talking with Robonosto, he found a source that claimed CoP Wyrms have a base INT of 120. So really you can treat 1 INT = 1 Skill = 1 MACC all the way up to 130 INT when doing a set if specifically fighting say Tiamat. Your resist set really varies depending on what you fight. For instance, post-CoP era HNMs have much lower INT values (but usually much higher MDB) and stacking INT is not nearly as effective and you would not want to treat 1 INT = 1 skill past like 90 or 100 INT.

I would personally still push for the 320/120 build simply because if you think about endgame BLM nuking targets, it mostly includes things in the CoP era or before - JoL, wyrms, Fafhogg, Sky gods - all high INT targets. Name me a mob in the post-CoP era that you would actually want to nuke for primary DD damage that requires a resist set? It's mainly stuff that either wouldn't resist normally or resists so terribly there's no point in taking BLM DD. The 320/120 build or concept makes sense on most things you'd use a resist set on. I personally don't care about how to reduce resists on Cerberus - no matter what I use sans ES, it's not going to help significantly.

Also, remember the average player would rather hear "do this" and not "it depends on what you fight because... (equations)". If you want to be anal and adjust for every mob more power to you, but most players simply don't want to bother.