UAE Royal Family Member's Torture Video

[Pringles]

ABC News Exclusive: Torture Tape Implicates UAE Royal Sheikh - ABC News

Saw this on Nightline last night, couldn't believe some of what I saw. I can only imagine what they couldn't show on TV looked like.

[Khajit]

Bad shiek! it's only legal when it's the other way around!

[Meian]

Prolly better for me to not watch but what is going on in it

[Khajit]

Basically the same thing the USA just did only it got captured on tape.
Torture person. Government involved. Investigation says it's not worth prosecution.

[fantasticdan]

A video tape smuggled out of the United Arab Emirates shows a member of the country's royal family mercilessly torturing a man with whips, electric cattle prods and wooden planks with protruding nails.

A man in a UAE police uniform is seen on the tape tying the victim's arms and legs, and later holding him down as the Sheikh pours salt on the man's wounds and then drives over him with his Mercedes SUV.

Yeah basically exactly what the USA does.

[Dezzimal]

FFXI pretty much killed any semblance of respect I had for anyone from the UAE, at least on the internet. This doesn't help heal my opinion at all.

[Elvis]

Please will the people of Egypt/Saudi Arabia/UAE/etc. rise up and kick these spoiled psychotic brats out of the ME?

[Elvis]

Yeah basically exactly what the USA does.

We've done stuff *like* this (not exact) and it was 'official' - read the Taguba Report. A lot of it is sexual abuse. That's what power does to people.

[Azalee]

That is horrible. I could never imagine being tortured like that.

[Vuitton]

Please will the people of Egypt/Saudi Arabia/UAE/etc. rise up and kick these spoiled psychotic brats out of the ME?

Maybe Firas can do it.

[Pringles]

It's naive to say the US didn't torture but to the extent of that video, I would say it doesn't compare. I have yet to see any reports out of Guantanamo Bay of inmates being run over repeatedly by a Mercedes SUV after over a half hour of beatings, being shot at, suffication, etc. You can hear bones being broken when he runs over him at the end.

[Elvis]

Personally, between kneeing someone in the legs repeatedly until amputation would be necessary (if the detainee hadn't died) and sodomizing another with a broomstick, I don't think there is much more you could do.

Sexual abuse of both male and female adult prisoners seems to have been rampant at Guantanamo Bay. There was one reported instance of child molestation as well.

This UAE prince seems to be as insane as Saddam's son Uday(sp). Actually, Uday was in a league of his own.

Nevertheless, I think the common variable is power of course. Not money and privilege - those are simply mechanisms. For those soldiers who engaged in torture, their position as American soldiers/conquering soldiers was the mechanism.

The UAE guy was wealthy and privileged. Those guilty soldiers were not.

Both groups ended up behaving similarly although we can dispute the severity of the acts.

[Yuri-G]

I don't know what's more disgusting, what the sheik did or the fact that he'll get away with it.

I'm surprised abc news showed even that much of the video. Some of that shit was pretty gruesome. I don't want to see the parts they couldn't show.

[Elvis]

A couple of years back, a couple from either the UAE or Saudi Arabia kicked their thai maid down the stairs and were brought to court for it. I think it turned out that they had kept her against her will under threat of deportation. They were also quite wealthy I think.

[Metah]

I can't beleive he survived being driven over by a car. That's some tough shit right there.

[Khajit]

The us torture wasnt as "severe" because they wanted it to sound as politically correct as possible. If you didn't realize it was a torture method you would think water boarding was like surfboarding only more watery or something. In this report you're seeing what's actually happening so that the method cant be as "sanitized" as well as. Isn't the international definition of torture being redefined due to what the US has been doing during the bush years to ensure that they didn't technically torture anyone?
It seems like this current case of torture is worse but that's just because the shiek wasn't worried about using 1984 style newspeak on anyone.

[Pringles]

A couple of years back, a couple from either the UAE or Saudi Arabia kicked their thai maid down the stairs and were brought to court for it. I think it turned out that they had kept her against her will under threat of deportation. They were also quite wealthy I think.

That actually reminded me of a link a friend had posted on his facebook wall a few weeks back:

The dark side of Dubai - Johann Hari, Commentators - The Independent

I'm no way trying to condemn the UAE, it's just the torture video was a bit shocking to see by a member of royalty. I would compare the video of the Shiek torturing the man to be roughly the same effect as if Dick Cheney had been the one torturing the inmates at Gitmo personally. The guards at Gitmo can at least use the excuse of they were ordered to do it. The Shiek did it for his own personal pleasure and recorded it so he could enjoy watching himself do it again and again.

Recording it for personal viewing later makes this a bit more extreme than the inmate torturing in my opinion. It's like the time when the Abu Grahb (sp) photos got released and there was the huge uproar of protest against the guards who did it. Torturing is one evil in itself, but making evidence of it to later view brings it to a whole new level.

[Elvis]

The question is:

Is institutionalized torture ('official' torture or extraordinary rendition) or unofficial torture (done by 'civilians' or criminals) comparable? Which is 'better' or 'worse'? Does it even matter?

@IssacVS

Actually, I take the other perspective in regards to your value judgment. I believe it's infinitely worse for us to torture under the guise of national security rather than some rich prick getting his/her sadist fix.

Our torturing is 'legitimate' and 'mainstream'. It's institutional. It's a symbol of our body politic. I mean, just think of the reactions people will have to the UAE Prince? I have no doubt that they will conflate his behavior with 'Islamo-blah blah'.

People judging our soldiers' behavior may think all of the American army is corrupt and evil and blah blah as well but within elite and mainstream circles, it can be softened. People can legitimize it as a necessary evil. Can't say the same about the UAE Prince - he was just being a psycho.

The question is when - if ever - is torture ok? Obviously not for fun, but is it worse when we try to make it legit?

[Pringles]

Torture is always going to exist, no matter what people do. Whether it's done by a sovereign government or by an individual doesn't make it any better or worse. Whether you're doing it to get information out of someone or doing it to make them pay for short changing you a bag of grain, it's still torture in the end.

[Khamsin]

Well, technically, sanctioned torture by government is better, since it's legal, so long as they didn't pass any laws forbidding it nor signed any treaties that said they wouldn't.

A criminal torturing you is illegal, unless the jurisdiction has no laws against it.

So, legal > illegal, although to the person being tortured, which feels better or worse depends on the authority (or criminal) doing it and is fairly subjective.