Critical on WS Questions

[Ashokan]

Two simple questions. I've done some searching and found mostly indirect answers, I apologize if I've missed posts. I'm just looking for definitive answers, to be sure I'm correct.

1. On multiple hit critical hit weapon skills, is the critical all-or-nothing or are the criticals counted on a per hit basis.
2. I seem to recall there was dispute and testing on whether crit% on certain items effect critical on weapon skills. What gear's crit% gear doesn't apply to weapon skills and what does?

[Argettio]

1. Hit by hit basis afaik
2. pass

[fliprock]

i also have a question in the same category:
can king's justice crit w/o ms, b/c i have heard both that it doesn't

[Xanthe]

i also have a question in the same category:
can king's justice crit w/o ms, b/c i have heard both that it doesn't

If a WS doesn't say "Chance of critical varies with TP" in the description, it will never critical unless forced with Mighty Strikes (all hits) or Sneak Attack (first hit). So the answer to your question is no.

[Ashokan]

1. Hit by hit basis afaik

That's where I'm at, I've always thought it was per hit, since:

1. Rampage dramatically increases with Mighty Strikes, it wouldn't be as noticeable if it was all-or-nothing.
2. SA, TA and Gorgets' fTP only apply to the first hit, so I assume it does every hit seperate.
3. Reliable sources seem to post in terms of number of crits in a WS.
4. Calculators always ask for the number of crits.

I never considered the possibility it was any other way, so I'm just trying to be certain. :D

2. pass

Pretty much where I'm at as well. I thought I had read that crit% latent weapons didn't apply. But I can't remember for sure. Maybe it's more, maybe less.

[Valyana]

AFAIK all +crit gear affects WS except that weapon +crit only applies to hits with that weapon.

[noodles355]

Which is why you mainhand Senji over Fudo.

[Ashokan]

except that weapon +crit only applies to hits with that weapon.

Yea, definitely knew that. Maybe I'm just thinking of:

I think there just has been recent hot debate on blu forum whether dissector affects critical of blu spells or not... and then leading to whether crit+ of dissector affect the other hand weapon (the answer is not)

I thought I had seen something disputing if crit% effects WS on gear for something other than BLU spells, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

[Max™]

Crit +% Gear affects that hands hit during WS.
For 2hers it's all hits obviously.
For 1hers, it's main or offhand obviously <= Senj/Fudo vs Fudo/Senj reason there.

KJ doesn't crit naturally, you'd see 2500~3000 Dmg KJ's left and right if it did, it just rapes face in the right situations. If your targets have oddly high Agi (Dyna mobs seem too), and RR is kinda slacking, bust out a KJ.

[Talint]

KJ doesn't crit naturally, you'd see 2500~3000 Dmg KJ's left and right if it did, it just rapes face in the right situations. If your targets have oddly high Agi (Dyna mobs seem too), and RR is kinda slacking, bust out a KJ.

I guess I need a WAR primer.

There are instances where RR is better than KJ? Does the chance of cit really hit that often to warrant a usage over it?

[Max™]

If you push your Dex high enough, RR crits consistently.

When RR crits, women orgasm, babies cry, and angels rip the wings off bluebirds before spontaneously combusting.

[Masamune]

To my understanding, there are actually 2 types of crit% :
- your "natural" crit% from stats/gears/buffs
- the WS "innate" crit%, if it has "critical varies with TP".

So when you calculate the WS dmg, you use for each WS hit, BOTH of those values.
Which means in the case of KJ/RR, you would see some wtf dmg with KJ sometimes because all 3hits crited thanks to your natural crit%, despite KJ NOT having "critical varies with tp"; With RR though, you'll see more consistently crited hits since for each RR's hit, you are adding BOTH natural and Innate crit%*DeltaTP.
Correct me if i'm wrong.

Question: Where can i find definitive values for those innate crit% to multiply with dTP ?
Thanks in advance for your answers.

[Shinryuu]

I'll correct you, you're wrong. No weaponskill can crit unless forced to, unless the description reads "Chance of critical hit..."

Popular weaponskills are either:
- Increase fTP with TP (in-game described as damage)
- Increase ACC with TP
- Increase chance of critical hits with TP (meaning it can crit; other WSs cannot unless forced)

Depending on the WS the initial stuff differs greatly. Pretty sure Penta/Asuran don't gain any innate ACC, while some other ACC WSs do. There's a H2H crit WS that has an innate crit of like 50%, but Raging Rush/Drakesbane? 0%, fairly sure. Full Swing goes from 1 to 3 to 5 fTP (100/200/300) and Gekko goes from 1.5625 to 1.875 to 2.50.

Then there's some static stuff like additional hits being 1.0 fTP always, offhand hits being 1.0 fTP w/ offhanded weapon DMG, single-hit WSs gaining an ACC and pDIF bonus, and for Slugwinder, the -RACC. Also, the 8 hits cap applies, making DA useless for Asuran and not-so-awesome for dualwielded Hexa.

To elaborate, realistic scenario: 118 DEX in WS gear, Perdu voulge, pole grip (so no Rampager/Claymore) 4/4 crit merits, Raging Rush, 100 TP. Pretty sure RR's innate crit is 0%, and therefore each RR hit has a 24% chance of critting.

[Masamune]

Thank you for correction. But can you develop how you obtain this 24% number please ?
Also, i'm pretty sure (but not totally), crit rates varies with TP on such WSs, only pseudo-confirmation i found is RR page on wiki Raging Rush - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki
...so do you mean this 24% number is fixed for each WS hit ? if not how that number varies ?

[Shinryuu]

20% from 5% base and then the extra DEX (15%), 4% from merits.

[Masamune]

ok thank you i got same result, just i dont feel weel well because it s kinda contradict the wiki page (and my experience/parsers wtf results) saying chances of crit increases with dTP... there should be an additional term *dTP somewhere maybe ?
In the example provided, in a "realistic" scenario, noone WS @ exactly 100%, more like 105-150+ %, which makes a non negligible dTP to account for... Unless wiki and dudes who posted that are completely wrong and i was smoking/drunk while looking at parsers XD

[hagun]

I guess I need a WAR primer.

There are instances where RR is better than KJ? Does the chance of cit really hit that often to warrant a usage over it?

I didn't take this seriously, because it must be a joke.

[Talint]

I didn't take this seriously, because it must be a joke.

Why? The comparison between KJ and RR is pretty deceiving on the surface. KJ is 50%/3 versus RR's 35%/3. I did not expect the "chance of critical hit" to be high enough to outweigh KJ (while pushing them past KJ's damage output), but it makes sense once you put all the pieces together.

Now I know. And knowing is half the... something or other.

[Argettio]

Why? The comparison between KJ and RR is pretty deceiving on the surface. KJ is 50%/3 versus RR's 35%/3. I did not expect the "chance of critical hit" to be high enough to outweigh KJ (while pushing them past KJ's damage output), but it makes sense once you put all the pieces together.

Now I know. And knowing is half the... something or other.

Yes RR chance of crit makes it > KJ at times.

This times are when you have reached the critical hit rate cap of 20% + merits + gear (WS in 115-120DEX at bird camp).

On mobs were you can't get a decent crit rate then KJ is likely to do better.

[Vejitta]

KJ modifiers may deny it but I yet have to see higher avarage dmg on KJ than on RR... on any mob, even if I'm putting every single STR gear I have during KJ (which is Alky over Heca only lol >.>).
But I would gladly read some way to improve KJ number, since this WS looks very nice.