All Worlds Maintenance (Apr. 27)

[arshesney]

System maintenace might have little or nothing to do with the game itslef, they use this time to reboot servers, fix hardware, test UPS, backups, etc

[grimrising]

You know compared to other MMOs, SEs amount of bugs is really not that bad >_> And they get the shit fixed quickly, with this RDM issue being an exception. Working as a GM for another MMO, you can definitely see a difference. Annoys me seeing people bitch about how many bugs FFXI has.

This is pretty funny actually.

SE has less bugs in part because they make less updates of real content. We get 4, or possibly 3 per year,

After complaining about bugs or crappy performance long enough, we stop complaining. (SE's lol version of instancing, for instance).

New stick beating an old horse but we all know they're infamous for ignoring much of what players want. And as for something like the enfeebling nerf. I am a programmer, If it was a glitch, I can't for the life of me imagine it taking that long to discover the faulty code, as some have suggested. Programming teams, especially outsourced teams (as someone theorized) and usually required, if not willing, to keep an active log on what they're changing so that everyone knows, so that hey..

"Suddenly monsters are resisting unbelievably."
"Hmmm. Well we've changed code in 12 locations that relate to enfeebling accuracy/duration."

Also SE isn't famous for their disclosure practices. We know much of the time that they're not being open with us.

Too long?

Fewer updates of real content results in few bugs.

Waiting for players to stop complaining isn't fixing a bug.

To say the least, SE has done an extremely good job with FFXI in terms of coding, since it is to date the only MMORPG that spans 3 distinctly different platforms and allows for all 3 of them to play together.

lol, that's been a curse to us, especially for this phrase "PS2 limitations". Which has been nothing but a copout in some regards. Mog Satchel took them how long to think up, seriously? A second gobbie bag that you couldn't /equip directly from as a workaround to 80 max inventory.

[dejet]

This is pretty funny actually.

SE has less bugs in part because they make less updates of real content. We get 4, or possibly 3 per year,

After complaining about bugs or crappy performance long enough, we stop complaining. (SE's lol version of instancing, for instance).

New stick beating an old horse but we all know they're infamous for ignoring much of what players want. And as for something like the enfeebling nerf. I am a programmer, If it was a glitch, I can't for the life of me imagine it taking that long to discover the faulty code, as some have suggested. Programming teams, especially outsourced teams (as someone theorized) and usually required, if not willing, to keep an active log on what they're changing so that everyone knows, so that hey..

"Suddenly monsters are resisting unbelievably."
"Hmmm. Well we've changed code in 12 locations that relate to enfeebling accuracy/duration."

Also SE isn't famous for their disclosure practices. We know much of the time that they're not being open with us.

Too long?

Fewer updates of real content results in few bugs.

Waiting for players to stop complaining isn't fixing a bug.



lol, that's been a curse to us, especially for this phrase "PS2 limitations". Which has been nothing but a copout in some regards. Mog Satchel took them how long to think up, seriously? A second gobbie bag that you couldn't /equip directly from as a workaround to 80 max inventory.

what are you going to say about FFXI, took wow 2x the time to get extra stuff. EQ I neve did play so can not tell. SE does a ok job. i do wish they had a test server TBH though, that could fix a tone of the little things. i never did get why there is no LIVE test server that you dont have to hack into to get onto.

[phrost]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/73881...into-shit.html

basically instead of one führer, they have a gestapo now. see you all in a few days-week

Hello, Robert. Speaking of bans..: haven't you been excommunicated from the church of BG a number of times?

[Kohan]

This is pretty funny actually.

SE has less bugs in part because they make less updates of real content. We get 4, or possibly 3 per year,

After complaining about bugs or crappy performance long enough, we stop complaining. (SE's lol version of instancing, for instance).

New stick beating an old horse but we all know they're infamous for ignoring much of what players want. And as for something like the enfeebling nerf. I am a programmer, If it was a glitch, I can't for the life of me imagine it taking that long to discover the faulty code, as some have suggested.

Then you haven't worked on something this complex, nor in the gaming industry. An MMO isn't the same as a web application, nor productivity software, nor practically anything else out there considered the presence of otherwise non-existent factors. People who make those comparisons -- regardless of having worked in a different form of development -- are making equally unrealistic assumptions. Unless you have worked on something of comparative scope, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Reducing the amount of updates isn't a bandage for poor programming, it's sensible and efficient. This is yet another reason why most other companies' efforts are riddled with bugs. They're constantly trying new things, subjecting the public to it, and as a result, are releasing various problems into the wild.

Further, few things that have truly been broken -- not broken according to what the players expect (in other words, largely functional and sound, even if unwanted) -- are normally fixed in a fairly prompt manner. A few weeks isn't as much to ask as many people make it out to be, particularly for product support after the software has already gone out the door, and this applies whether it's an MMO or not.

[Hanyoko]

As the consumer we only see what gets delivered to us. And this is usually an update that needs 2+ "fixes" after the fact. We hear nothing from the Developers of what they are working on/towards/etc. Its one thing I've learned from SE to do with my own software. I pass along current work features to the higher ups which get distributed to the customer base as features in development. From that we get feedback and can improve the product.

[SnickySnacks]

While I agree, in theory, with the above poster that passing along details is a good thing in general...

There's always the chance that they're fixing an exploit of some sort and that revealing the details before the fix may not be the brightest decision.

Given that this maintenance is listed as "System Maintenance" it's possible they're doing the usual hardware/software upgrades that don't actually fall under anything the playerbase needs to know about. This isn't "Emergency Maintenance" or anything, they're just upgrades switches and whatever they do. In which case, the notice has told us exactly what's going on...

But we'll see. might always have some patch notes after.

[ringthree]

This is pretty funny actually.

SE has less bugs in part because they make less updates of real content. We get 4, or possibly 3 per year,

After complaining about bugs or crappy performance long enough, we stop complaining. (SE's lol version of instancing, for instance).

New stick beating an old horse but we all know they're infamous for ignoring much of what players want. And as for something like the enfeebling nerf. I am a programmer, If it was a glitch, I can't for the life of me imagine it taking that long to discover the faulty code, as some have suggested. Programming teams, especially outsourced teams (as someone theorized) and usually required, if not willing, to keep an active log on what they're changing so that everyone knows, so that hey..

"Suddenly monsters are resisting unbelievably."
"Hmmm. Well we've changed code in 12 locations that relate to enfeebling accuracy/duration."

Also SE isn't famous for their disclosure practices. We know much of the time that they're not being open with us.

Too long?

Fewer updates of real content results in few bugs.

Waiting for players to stop complaining isn't fixing a bug.

I dabble in WoW and follow it's information also. If you think that the update problems we have are bad, you have no idea the shit storm Blizzard causes every update.

Not only that but they have major server instability and lag issues for weeks after an update.

There are somethings Blizzard does well, but there are some things with FFXI that we may take for granted like server consistency and server up-time.

[Pikarya]

What time is this supposed to be over EST? 5-6PM EST? I'm probably wrong as fffffff.

[ronin sparthos]

I dabble in WoW and follow it's information also. If you think that the update problems we have are bad, you have no idea the shit storm Blizzard causes every update.

Not only that but they have major server instability and lag issues for weeks after an update.

There are somethings Blizzard does well, but there are some things with FFXI that we may take for granted like server consistency and server up-time.

Bolded: Truth.

Looting issues, falling through structures, monsters "evading" everything you throw at them, monsters that dont move etc.

If theres one thing you cant shit on XI for is the amount of bugs it has vs other MMOs. If only SE would refund fuckups like glitched Einherjars or Nyzul, they'd be undisputed king.

[ringthree]

Bolded: Truth.

Looting issues, falling through structures, monsters "evading" everything you throw at them, monsters that dont move etc.

If theres one thing you cant shit on XI for is the amount of bugs it has vs other MMOs. If only SE would refund fuckups like glitched Einherjars or Nyzul, they'd be undisputed king.

The best thing I heard reported from WoW's last update was when a raid two-shotted XT-002 Deconstructor, then the entire zone disappeared and the raid just fell forever. XD

[Kaiyoko]

Bolded: Truth.

Looting issues, falling through structures, monsters "evading" everything you throw at them, monsters that dont move etc.

If theres one thing you cant shit on XI for is the amount of bugs it has vs other MMOs. If only SE would refund fuckups like glitched Einherjars or Nyzul, they'd be undisputed king.

Brings back memorys of raid bosses in Nax falling through the ground but still able to rape anyone near it in the instance ~.~

[Moosey]

I dabble in WoW and follow it's information also. If you think that the update problems we have are bad, you have no idea the shit storm Blizzard causes every update.

Not only that but they have major server instability and lag issues for weeks after an update.

There are somethings Blizzard does well, but there are some things with FFXI that we may take for granted like server consistency and server up-time.

A few years ago that was a very different story. I can remember weeks of maintenance after an FFXI update(hi2u dead zones) and actually downloading the update would take literally the entire day. They have definitely improved in that department, but compared to WoW, the communication they have with the playerbase is absolute trash.

WoW devs get on the forums and talk directly to the players about shit, hasn't always been like this, but around the end of BC/early WOTLK they started doing it a lot more.

Also, WoW's patches aren't really that bad, occasionally they'll run into problems, but it doesn't happen very often(test servers and weekly "check-up" maintenance help lots.)

[ringthree]

A few years ago that was a very different story. I can remember weeks of maintenance after an FFXI update(hi2u dead zones) and actually downloading the update would take literally the entire day. They have definitely improved in that department, but compared to WoW, the communication they have with the playerbase is absolute trash.

WoW devs get on the forums and talk directly to the players about shit, hasn't always been like this, but around the end of BC/early WOTLK they started doing it a lot more.

Also, WoW's patches aren't really that bad, occasionally they'll run into problems, but it doesn't happen very often(test servers and weekly "check-up" maintenance help lots.)

I do agree about their contacts, I have mentioned that before in many other places.

If you compare recent update stability WoW is far behind FFXI, and that includes the enfeebling screw-up. Years ago, FFXI was pretty bad but WoW was near unplayable at times.

WoW patches really are pretty bad, and their players complain about them even more than we do. Rolling restarts probably shouldn't be necessary for a game that has 4+ hours of weekly maintenance. I think we are definitely spoiled when it comes to server stability. WoW players are spoiled by developer contact, we need Ghostcrawler instead of Sundi. Maybe a foreign exchange program!

[TummieGaruda]

fucking euro prime maint again

eh, Monday was a free day anyway, but still.

Before anyone says it, No it's not because SE hates EU players...
SE is consistent with their Maintenance times because this is the window in which there are the least simultaneous logins to all of the servers.

Login Times in JST courtesy of the 2008 Census
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../img/img01.jpg

There is a sharp decline in the amount of players on all words in the early mornings in Japan, which translates to the time that they do maintenences. NA's are either at work or school, and for JST it's 1am and most are asleep/going to sleep. It's better to take down the servers when there is the least amount of traffic. The same practice is held by IT departments in businesses...you take down equipment for maintenance when there is little to no traffic on the network.

[Hyan]

Before anyone says it, No it's not because SE hates EU players...
SE is consistent with their Maintenance times because this is the window in which there are the least simultaneous logins to all of the servers.

Login Times in JST courtesy of the 2008 Census
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../img/img01.jpg

There is a sharp decline in the amount of players on all words in the early mornings in Japan, which translates to the time that they do maintenences. NA's are either at work or school, and for JST it's 1am and most are asleep/going to sleep. It's better to take down the servers when there is the least amount of traffic. The same practice is held by IT departments in businesses...you take down equipment for maintenance when there is little to no traffic on the network.

I don't really believe that around now (4 pm GMT) would be the best time to do the maintenances. I'd say 7~8 am GMT would be best time, since NA's are going to bed, EU's are waking up/going to work and JP's are still working for few hours at least. Not that this time really bothers me though, I just don't think it's optimal.

[Moosey]

I do agree about their contacts, I have mentioned that before in many other places.

If you compare recent update stability WoW is far behind FFXI, and that includes the enfeebling screw-up. Years ago, FFXI was pretty bad but WoW was near unplayable at times.

WoW patches really are pretty bad, and their players complain about them even more than we do. Rolling restarts probably shouldn't be necessary for a game that has 4+ hours of weekly maintenance. I think we are definitely spoiled when it comes to server stability. WoW players are spoiled by developer contact, we need Ghostcrawler instead of Sundi. Maybe a foreign exchange program!

Yeah, but think about how many more people play WoW than FFXI lol. They kind of need those maintenances to try and keep the 11+mil people from bitching even more. It used to bug the shit out of me to see the WoW forums spammed without how the devs never respond or listen to them, and i'd just think to myself that these people should play FFXI for a few months and see what no dev contact is really like lol.

But yeah, the two games seem to have done a 180 in various regards, and FFXI has made a lot of improvements while WoW has lost a lot of what made me start playing it a few years ago, hence my FFXI return. FFXI has the lesser of two evils imo.

[isladar]

monsters that dont move etc.

WORKING AS INTENDED:

IT'S A RANGER

[Kang]

WORKING AS INTENDED:

IT'S A RANGER

This reminded of rng mobs locking players whe they do RA. Hate that shit so much.

[TummieGaruda]

I don't really believe that around now (4 pm GMT) would be the best time to do the maintenances. I'd say 7~8 am GMT would be best time, since NA's are going to bed, EU's are waking up/going to work and JP's are still working for few hours at least. Not that this time really bothers me though, I just don't think it's optimal.

Well the new Census is due out in about two weeks so it will be interesting to see if the login times are the same or different. But based on the graph you can see the lowest login times are around 1am JST. If the times are different from the last census they could possibly change it, but I am not sure they will.

Last time they did a maintenance around 6am GMT was back in the Feb 2005 update and that was such a horrible disaster. The servers were congested with players trying to download the update, and the download would stop at 99% and fail. Some players couldn't get into the game for 36+ hours due to the congestion. Though older hardware was also to blame, it was very bad timing on their part.