Endgame Rewards and Situational Gear

[#686578]

Actually, increasing merits wouldn't be a bad idea as far as a reward system goes. Just instead of spending it really, or just endless grind, it's a reward at the end of a mission. Same concept really.

It'd pretty much be like OP said, instead of a piece of situational (or at best a full time TP piece or WS piece) gear for one or two jobs, that really only provides like +2 more STR into your gekko, you'd receive like STR+5 across all jobs as sort of a hidden merit.



Honestly, I could potentially see something like this occurring, not be game breaking (through scalability as touched on earlier), and actually be more useful than some of the rewards we're currently receiving.

[Guppy]

One problem I've increasingly run up against -- the situation in which gear swapping would be beneficial has become increasingly sophisticated. I'm nearing the point where there are a lot of swaps that are barely do-able for a player that uses native FFXI macros, due to limitations in the available commands and lines. We've gotten a huge expansion in the number of macro books available, but the primitive editing system makes the large number almost unmanageable.

Unfortunately, Windower causes too much of a slowdown on my laptop for me to use it, but more and more it seems to offer an unsurmountable advantage when combined with increasingly sophisticated swapping methods. Elemental Obis are a good example -- constantly adjusting for combinations of day/weather is difficult to micromanage, but Windower can do it automagically. Likewise, swapping Fastcast gear in/out at casting start, to stack the timer bonus with other gear. I'm about to throw up my hands and just put these kinds of gear into storage, and then maybe reconsider again when I finally get around to replacing my computer.

On the other hand, it really does look like we've been getting some additions meant to be less situational and more multi-purpose. The increasing amount of M.Acc available looks like it's meant to reduce the amount of skill equipment swaps (for various magic categories/jobs) that's needed. Of course, it's designed to give substantially less of a boost than specific swapping, and a sharp drop-off below the threshold 50% resist rate -- it's very clear that multi-purpose is meant to be limited to lower-intensity situations.

[Shin Volcano]

Last I checked, losing is not fun. The "casual gaming" excuse is always a bullshit excuse used by lazy people who don't want to put the extra effort into actually being good.

Hate to break this to you kiddo but it is possible to have fun and still win, i know, shocking right? what you are trying to say is "hey this game is fucking serious" no fun allowed serious=win!" you strike me as the type of person to where if they die or lose, you look down on them, this my friend is called Elitsm "Casual gaming" excuse? you saying he isn't allowed have fun and should always be serious? wtf? this is a GAME not a penis mesuring contest, not a job, when you start judging people just because how they choose to play this game that isn't suited to your taste, you're no better.
I play for fun and i actually win (success at what i do) this type of crap is the very thing that doesn't need to be in game.

Alot of items in this game just seem to be fillers, some are usefull, some you can't do without, and some are just comeplety useless and just there for looks, SE just gave you the choices.

[Izzy]

Hate to break this to you kiddo but it is possible have fun and still win, i know, shocking right? what you are trying to say is "hey this game is fucking serious" no fun allowed serious=win!" you strike me as the type of person to where if they die or lose, you look down on them, this my friend is called Elitsm "Casual gaming" excuse? you saying he isn't allowed have fun and should always be serious? wtf? this is a GAME not a penis mesuring contest, not a job, when you start judging people just because how they choose to play this game that isn't suited to your taste, you're no better.
I play for fun and i actually win (success at what i do) this type of crap wis the very thing that doesn't need to be in game.

Alot of items in this game just seem to be fillers, some are usefull, some you can't do without, and some are just comeplety useless and just there for looks, SE just gave you the choices.

Dude, look at what fucking forum you're posting on. Are you seriously trying to tell me, on The Order of the Blue Gartr LS forums, not to be elitist?

This is the kind of shit I wish mods would ban for now. Waste of fucking time.

[Devolver]

One problem I've increasingly run up against -- the situation in which gear swapping would be beneficial has become increasingly sophisticated.

This is my biggest problem with the current gear out in the game, that there are so many situations that calls for different gear, and gear swapping has become more of a pain than anything for someone using something other than windower. They should really consider raising the lines available per macro slot. Also having to actually use /wait in macros annoy me to no end. Just eats up unnecessary lines.

[Shin Volcano]

Dude, look at what fucking forum you're posting on. Are you seriously trying to tell me, on The Order of the Blue Gartr LS forums, not to be elitist?

This is the kind of shit I wish mods would ban for now. Waste of fucking time.

What the fuck? yes, let's all be ass holes and talk shit to everyone that isn't us, good point. not an ass hole? you deserve to be banned? this forum is for people to post about the game and it's features. and no NOT to be a dick. good thing you aren't a mod then, you'd be the only one posting.

Originally Posted by Guppy
One problem I've increasingly run up against -- the situation in which gear swapping would be beneficial has become increasingly sophisticated.

It's needed...otherwise things would be alot harder.

[Midnightjade]

I'd like to see augmentable item for the leg slot as reward for the next expansion. Honestly, for a lot of jobs atm the options kind of suck, it's either B Haidate or nothing (and yes I know this is oversimplifying, so sue me). Yes please to a bit of variety.

[Shin Volcano]

I'd like to see augmentable item for the leg slot as reward for the next expansion. Honestly, for a lot of jobs atm the options kind of suck, it's either B Haidate or nothing (and yes I know this is oversimplifying, so sue me). Yes please to a bit of variety.

Unless it's a leg peice with Equal or greater Haste, no one will replace B haidate, the only exception are usukane legs for the full set bonus, (for the 4 jobs that can wear it) otherwise they have to be 5% haste or more, or something redicously high like STR+20 or attack 30 to even consider using over them, but we know that's not going happen. i even had a debate with somone who was trying to convince me af2 legs for war were better because of double attack build...i'm no war but i am fairly sure Haidate shouldn't be replaced..

[ringthree]

I don't think this forum is for you.

If you're not trying to do your best, what's the fucking point?

I don't know, I have what I would consider to be very good gear, but I do pass on marginal gear because I need to fill larger gear gaps for other jobs.

For example, I still use Amemet Mantle +1 for my SAM because I have to have it for my RNG and I haven't wanted to dump the gil for +1 STR on a Forager's Mantle. I am considering a Cuch Mantle but it is very high dollar and I am leveling BLM right now and need to make a Macha's Coat.

I am trying my best within the limits of my time and budget. I don't know if absolute statements about always having the best gear is really appropriate for everyone. Trade-offs are a reality we wish we didn't have to deal with, but we do.

This doesn't mean that I agree with Spooky's notion of "more fun, less eliteness" but I do recognize an inevitable (and sometimes disappointing, admittedly) pragmatic compromise of space, time and money.

Last I checked, losing is not fun. The "casual gaming" excuse is always a bullshit excuse used by lazy people who don't want to put the extra effort into actually being good.

And this is why "elitist pricks" are so named. I have no problem spending lots of time doing events and working for gear, and if other people don't have that as their goal that is fine. I am only bothered when content is aimed for them and not me, or if those that are not motivated interfere with my enjoyment of the game (e.g. a melee RDM in my XP party).

You can play this game casually, it's actually really easy with Nyzul and Salvage providing very good gear in a limited playtime, but it requires an ability to look at what you can and can't do in your limited time and maximizing the benefit of the time you have.

That being said, I believe there is a difference between "casual" players and "lazy" players. Lazy players are the problem. They don't care about gearing themselves properly, they don't care about using their limited time efficiently, they don't care if their failures hurt other people.

If someone says "It's my money, I can play how I want" they are lazy, if they say "I can try, but I don't know if I have the gear to help" then they are casual. I have sympathy for the casual, none for the lazy.

Sorry, this got longer than I expected.

[Izzy]

What the fuck? yes, let's all be ass holes and talk shit to everyone that isn't us, good point. not an ass hole? you deserve to be banned? this forum is for people to post about the game and it's features. and no NOT to be a dick. good thing you aren't a mod then, you'd be the only one posting.

Yes, this forum is for casual gamers to discuss which direction they face when they synth, which moon phases produce the best drops, the best strategies to get a THF in to get last hit on a mob for maximum TH potency and the best ways to create skillchains for maximum exp.

No joke, you shouldn't be posting here if you agree with anything I have said in this post. There is a reason there's a new "Advanced or GTFO" rule, and posts like yours are that reason.

[Izzy]

This doesn't mean that I agree with Spooky's notion of "more fun, less eliteness" but I do recognize an inevitable (and sometimes disappointing, admittedly) pragmatic compromise of space, time and money.

That's what I was trying to pick at. I do agree that there are times when having the absolute best is either not feasible or economically viable. However, coming to this forum, like he did, and picking at people for trying to get 110% out of your job is absurd.

[Ziero]

Also, forever and ever fuck mission-end rewards you have to pick one of and are never able to go back and re-complete to collect them all. I would repeat CoP and all it's pre-patched gnarlyness if I could collect all 3 rings at once, likewise with ToAU rings, likewise with ACP bodies, Divine Might earrings, Apocolypse Nigh, et cetera. Why, in a game that flaunts its versatility in job choices/changing, do they get off on making us pick only one of some big items that only says TANK or MAGE or MELEE on it...

Because while you have the option to experiance everything in this game, it's clear SE doesn't want one person to be able to be everything all at the same time. It's the same reason merits are limited and you can only have one craft at 100. And from my understanding, the only "reward item" you can only obtain once is the ToAU ring, and that's something SE needs to address.

Last I checked, losing is not fun. The "casual gaming" excuse is always a bullshit excuse used by lazy people who don't want to put the extra effort into actually being good.

You can be a "casual" player and not be a loser. But what one considers "extra effort" others will consider to be more work then it's worth it. While a lot of players will stop at nothing to get that extra +1 on their gear, ignoring all else and trampling anyone in their way to do so, many other people just don't feel the desire to do that. Especially in a game we pay to play. I know I'll never spend 3 days straight camping a ground king and ignoring everything else that's actually *fun* about this game. But to each is own.

And personally, while it would statistically be useful, getting more merits for finishing a long mission chain would kind of feel cheap to me. One of the reasons they offer these "end of the mission" items is to not only reward you with something fairly useful, but to also give you a momento to show you beat those missions. The items are a visible representation that you've gone through those stories, fought those bosses and came out in the end a winner. So while I'm not against expanding the merit system at all, I just don't think it should be done as a final mission reward. That Rajas ring is more then just 5 Str and Dex, it's a sign that says "I beat Promethia".

What would be cool, and miokomioko touched upon this, would if at the end of a mission chain, you would be given the choice of a generally useful Job Ability, something that could be useful to a wide variety of classes at 75. Terror-Spikes for tanks, short duration auto-refresh for mages, etc etc, something useful, and maybe a bit over-powered, but as a mission reward it should be useful.

Of course you should have the option to request and choose another ability if you so desire. In this game you should have access to experiance all the content, even if it's not all done at the same time.

[Shin Volcano]

Yes, this forum is for casual gamers to discuss which direction they face when they synth, which moon phases produce the best drops, the best strategies to get a THF in to get last hit on a mob for maximum TH potency and the best ways to create skillchains for maximum exp.

No joke, you shouldn't be posting here if you agree with anything I have said in this post. There is a reason there's a new "Advanced or GTFO" rule, and posts like yours are that reason.

SO..since i don't agree with your aggressive logic, i shouldn't be posting here? i think you should seriously consider quiting this game, it's simply not serious enough for you.

[Kaiyoko]

Yes, this forum is for casual gamers to discuss which direction they face when they synth, which moon phases produce the best drops, the best strategies to get a THF in to get last hit on a mob for maximum TH potency and the best ways to create skillchains for maximum exp.

No joke, you shouldn't be posting here if you agree with anything I have said in this post. There is a reason there's a new "Advanced or GTFO" rule, and posts like yours are that reason.

^^^

This is form is people who want to get the most out of their gear and to strive for the "best". Not to be mediocre, average, lazy players. You're going to get a shit load of critism from people and if you cant take it then stick with standard or don't even bother looking at BG if you're going to throw a fit everytime acts like an elistest.

[Shin Volcano]

^^^

This is form is people who want to get the most out of their gear to be the "best" and not some mediocre, average, lazy player. You're going to get a shit load of critism from people and if you cant take it then stick with standard or don't even bother looking at BG if you're going to throw a fit everytime acts like an elistest.

I do acttally do get the best out of my gear, and not a average mediocre player, i already get enough critism from other ass holes, and "my shit dosn't stink" people, trust me, he isn't the 1st, there is a diffrence between being an advanced player and just being an ass.

[The Blackrose]

I've had enough.

[ringthree]

That's what I was trying to pick at. I do agree that there are times when having the absolute best is either not feasible or economically viable. However, coming to this forum, like he did, and picking at people for trying to get 110% out of your job is absurd.

Is it? Or is that just because we all are used to being douches to anyone that doesn't think with the same extreme sensibilities that we usually use?

I don't know. I kind of like the direction Sonamaa and some of the mods want to push the direction of the forum.

I wish this place was more like Elitist Jerks (it's a WoW forum kinda like this but much less bashing in the main discussion forum). I think your notions are completely correct, but I think it's probably better if we all act like regular elitist human beings rather than internet douches.

I am leading this astray and I will stop here, it may be worth making this discussion into another thread though.

[Midnightjade]

Unless it's a leg peice with Equal or greater Haste, no one will replace B haidate, the only exception are usukane legs for the full set bonus, (for the 4 jobs that can wear it) otherwise they have to be 5% haste or more, or something redicously high like STR+20 or attack 30 to even consider using over them, but we know that's not going happen. i even had a debate with somone who was trying to convince me af2 legs for war were better because of double attack build...i'm no war but i am fairly sure Haidate shouldn't be replaced..

Maybe make it augmentable such that it's close? One option would be to start with (let's say) 1% (or 2%?) haste base, then two augments. One augment option could be 2% haste, others could be acc, atk, fastcast, eva, etc etc. Mix and match them. End result would be interesting at least.

Just an idea but they've already done rings, earrings, head slot and especially body slot to death.

[Xno Kappa]

im still waiting for a quest that gives something great that requires waking the beast as a prerequisite..

Don't you put that curse on us Ricky Bobby!!!

Honestly, I'd much rather SE expands on the augmenting system supplemented with an update that universally increases drop rates on all items. Rewards should be based off skill and not random dumb luck. Crap like 3+ years of Dynamis Xarcabard just to see maybe a handful of RDM hats shouldn't exist.

I do acttally do get the best out of my gear, and not a average mediocre player, i already get enough critism from other ass holes, and "my shit dosn't stink" people, trust me, he isn't the 1st, there is a diffrence between being an advanced player and just being an ass.

lolDenali Bonnet?

[Acturus]

You'd been surprised how many people actually hate Kings and spent a good portion of their FFXI career in a HNMLS. Maybe I don't understand what that gentlemen meant but there are casual players who don't mind being the best, just like to hang out and have fun in their own way.

Oh, I know it, believe you me.

I was hung up more on the whole "fun or X" comment. I know FFXI is an addiction and all that jazz, but even those players, who despise king camps, still do them because it affords them opportunities elsewhere where it is fun to be.

Of course, Izzy went in a completely different direction than I had expected in this thread, so it's sort of a moot point now.