A new sollution to claiming / botting?

[Hogie]

After speaking with Starhawk today he wanted to get my input on something he had a idea for. After reading it, i thought it was a very interesting idea and thought i would get some opinions from BG.

Original thread can be found here

An idea for a new claiming system - to resolve botting
by StarHawk on Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:31 pm

Before I start on my idea, let me just say this comes from a lot of personal experience. I have written a few different bots that worked through the various claiming "patches" SE has made thus far. In my opinion the idea I will present below still results in a fair outcome, by accepting the fact people will bot, and making it irrelevant.

I think the best way to explain this idea is to run through an actual pop of a NM. I'll use Fafnir as an example.

Fafnir spawns, and everyone sees him.
For 30 seconds Fafnir either does nothing, or walks around the room acting all "raged, and confused".
During this 30 seconds everyone who is paying attention, or botting... does their claim ability on Fafnir. They all miss.
After the 30 seconds are up, the system would take the list of people who tried to claim fafnir, and randomly select someone from the list, and award that person the claim.

This solution in my opinion resolves most of the botting. The issue that remains is the linkshell that brings every mule every alt, and every toon they could possibly concieve to claim with, to get a larger slice of the random percentage. I have a solution for that too.

Every time someone attempts to claim Fafnir, and ultimately gets awarded it (whole alliance) gets what is similar in concept to tonberry hate - which is to say, some form of cumulative hate towards Fafnir. Now when the random generator runs, it would negatively bias people who have hate on Fafnir. The more claims you get awarded, the lower odds you win a claim. This could have some sort of roll-off period where your hate is back down to 0% from 100% (maybe 14 days?).

And the last piece of the puzzle in my opinion is people generating 14 day trials or level 5 warriors to try and win claims for them, since they are so high in the hate list. Again, I have an idea. Fafnir is an end-game monster. It could easily have a level requirement of 70+ to even attempt to claim on it. Most linkshells wouldn't bring out anyone who wasn't atleast level 70 anyway!

As for Nidhogg, I see him operating on a similar principle but with his OWN hate list, and a longer duration on the hate reset period, since he only pops once every X days.

Any thoughts on this idea? I've had this idea for some time and I've run it by a few people who liked it, and felt maybe I should share, so sharing I am. If you like it, it might be a good idea to post this idea to SE, or on another forum either directly or via a URL to this thread.

Thanks for Listening,

--StarHawk

Originally I thought this may be a bit extreme, but after thinking about it more... is it really? Everyone should have a fair chance right? Personally I am a big fan of skilled claimers getting credit for being able to claim better then everyone else, but quite honestly how many skilled claimers actually get claim anymore with all the bots?

Idea's, thoughts, comments?

[Dimmauk]

Sounds alright, you could also put level minimums on the zones the HNMs pop on. Like DA is level 60, VOS is 50, BD is 30, etc...

[ringthree]

I believe this has been suggested before. There are problems with it that I am sure other people will go over.

In the end though, anything is better than the current situation.

[Mizango]

In the end though, anything is better than the current situation.

^ Agreed.

The only issue I have with a level cap is that leveling a bot mule post 60 or 70 with gimp/average gear is a piece of cake. You can easily rotate it through 2 or 3 members and go to town basically exp'ing around the clock, I've seen it done twice.

1 Job change Brd or Cor.
2 Ding 60-70 in a week
3 ?????
4 Profilt.

[Dimmauk]

^ Agreed.

The only issue I have with a level cap is that leveling a bot mule post 60 or 70 with gimp/average gear is a piece of cake. You can easily rotate it through 2 or 3 members and go to town basically exp'ing around the clock, I've seen it done twice.

1 Job change Brd or Cor.
2 Ding 60-70 in a week
3 ?????
4 Profilt.

More Fodder for the Gimp thread. It would still be a nice time sink.

[Narol]

A simpler solution would probably be better. The problem is that if you applied some of the other anti-botting solutions SE's used in the past (moving drops around, making the NMs force-pop, etc), it'd probably hurt more than it'd help.

Though if you're going to go with the chaos of "everyone spam Dia/Provoke/etc to get a random claim," why not just have everyone register for a claim lotto at a ??? at his spawn point or something? Same effect, less hacking at the claim system for a few special cases.

[Corrderio]

Decent idea, although I think they should put a level restriction on VoS,DA, and BD where you can only enter it if you're 40+.

A simpler solution would probably be better

This to, and what it boils down to IMO is this: Make them forced pop, but make the forced pop item hard/limited to obtain.

[Hogie]

Well even if you were to level a bot mule, something like what Starhawk is suggesting would suggest that a bot mule would not really matter

Yes i like the idea of a force pop as well (like Ulli) or even just a instance that you can do once every X time

[Gryffes]

Mobs in DA drop key item, 1%.
Key item gives access to fafhog pit BCNM.
Upon entry all members get a key item that prevents access for 72hrs.

No entry/exit area so outsiders can lot loot w/o getting keyed.

Bizongojongo.

[Corrderio]

Well even if you were to level a bot mule, something like what Starhawk is suggesting would suggest that a bot mule would not really matter

Yes i like the idea of a force pop as well (like Ulli) or even just a instance that you can do once every X time

It might not, but since you get "hate" on each claim which lowers your chances in the future, a bot mule would probably become the new hype at camps since getting level 5 on WAR and going to DA wouldn't take that long at all.

Or after awhile your built up hate will start to wear off could work to, like upon sucessful claim everyone in the alliance gets 10 points of hate and each day they lose one point of hate could work to I suppose.

[Ohaigaiz]

I really wouldn't mind some type of instance like Dynamis where boss monsters like Nid and Behe roam. Everyone seems to want this fair crap, even though this game comes down to chance. Claiming with a bot comes down to chance.

This will never happen and you all know it. All timed world spawns being lotto pop or some shit? There's an NM that already meets those requirements and drops abjs, Odin.

[Gadritan]

Mobs in DA drop key item, 1%.
Key item gives access to fafhog pit BCNM.
Upon entry all members get a key item that prevents access for 72hrs.

No entry/exit area so outsiders can lot loot w/o getting keyed.

Bizongojongo.

This would just result in all the mobs in DA (there aren't many) being botted 24/7. You can take faf down with 6ppl np. So restricting access for 72hrs wouldn't matter. You could just rotate people in.

[Crizto]

It would be tough to farm the key item when everyone starts botting the normal mobs lol

[Narol]

Everyone seems to want this fair crap, even though this game comes down to chance. Claiming with a bot comes down to chance.

"Fair" is a construct built from the rules of the game. Botters go against these stated rules, thus their advantage is unfair. It's more accurate to say that people want a situation where botters have no advantage over non-botters, regardless of any chance in the form of drop rates, etc.

[Corrderio]

I really wouldn't mind some type of instance like Dynamis where boss monsters like Nid and Behe roam. Everyone seems to want this fair crap, even though this game comes down to chance. Claiming with a bot comes down to chance.

This will never happen and you all know it. All timed world spawns being lotto pop or some shit? There's an NM that already meets those requirements and drops abjs, Odin.

Yes, but having to put up bots shouldn't be the part of chance.

And this system could be expanded to other HNMs to like DI/SW, CoP Wyrms, and ToAU Kings.

[Dimmauk]

It would be tough to farm the key item when everyone starts botting the normal mobs lol

Like when ACP came out and people were Botting Goblins.

[Hogie]

Im about to leave work so i wont be able to check this in a bit, but quite honestly im with Ohaigaiz on this. I would LOVE to see a Dynamis type zone, less time... maybe something like limbus rather, where at the end of it you fight a Boss type mob like a King. If you enter the Fafhogg type zone, it would be a area similar to DA and the final fight will be in a pit like DA. If you were to enter the KB zone, it will be similar to KB area where it would be a big open space.

If they were to make a instance type thing like this they would also make the mobs a heck of a lot harder since they are getting to the point of too easy now.

[Eanae]

This has never been suggested for ever before. New and exciting. One of a kind solution that has never been offered in a thread until now. Bravo.

[Eanae]

On another note I'm disappointed Star would degrade himself to posting that kind of crap anywhere.

[Darwinion]

On another note I'm disappointed Star would degrade himself to posting that kind of crap anywhere.

Seems like a decent idea to me. What's wrong with it? The only people who would be against this are cheating cunts who bot and who crave some form of unfair advantage. You one of those people?