Steam Cleaner Solo

[Lyltia]

On something as completely lol as Steam Cleaner, w.legs shouldn't be a factor in whether you eat a -ga3 or not. Fight it in the right place and it won't be.

The Detectors downstairs pop just as reliably as the one upstairs. If one pops near you, you have plenty of time to stop, Blizzard III it, and continue kiting, oftentimes before Steam Cleaner even has a chance to catch up and start casting something at you, even moreso if you possess those w.legs. Compare that to the fact that the Detector upstairs only spawns at one end of the kiting route, greatly increasing the chances of a -ga3 hitting you while you dispose of it. Any argument against kiting in the basement concerning Detectors is lol.

[Raen Ryong]

Well, I admit I have never tried the basement path so I can't really say bad things about it. The stairs path is a lot more reliant on Bind and if it's popped at the bottom, you just Bind SC high up and take out the detector at your leisure.

[Thorny]

You can kite it on the stairs without even killing the detector there.. it's easy at either place. If you go downstairs, you do need to kill the detectors meaning someone can gank your SC when your nuke goes off, that's reason enough to do it on the stairs for me.

[Raen Ryong]

Yeah, I'd leave the Detector if I knew someone was there as well; killing it just means I have that extra stretch of corridor to kite in.

[Lyltia]

It takes a few seconds after your nuke lands on a Detector to lose claim on Steam Cleaner, more than enough time to Bind or Gravity it if some jackass is following you around. Besides, they usually lose interest and bail long before Detector spawns are due anyway, after they see you not failing.

[Thorny]

It takes a few seconds after your nuke lands on a Detector to lose claim on Steam Cleaner, more than enough time to Bind or Gravity it if some jackass is following you around. Besides, they usually lose interest and bail long before Detector spawns are due anyway, after they see you not failing.

action can be done on it as soon as you tag detector, regardless of it still showing up as red.. not that many people steal steam cleaner but it's still possible

[Antec]

"Far less efficient" how? Running all the way downstairs to pull, then running all the way back upstairs with two uncontrolled mobs on your tail to the zone for one shot at a Steam Cleaner, as in Belkin's strategy, is somehow efficient? I don't mean that as a slight at Belkin either, he makes it quite clear it's not something he spent much time on and acknowledged there were probably better ways to go about it. Besides, if you have some kind of a problem anticipating the two detector pops, or somehow think they pose a threat, then, lol.

Also, zone out at the top to avoid -ga3? Really? Do you zone away from Zipacna too? I thought this was the forum of the FFXI elite.

Honestly, I thought what Raen posted was a copy paste off of Belkin's blog due to the similar style of display. But did you even read the 2nd part where I said to keep the detector slept at the bottom of the stairs and the groundskeeper will depop as soon as you reach to the top? So yes, your method of getting 2 chances at popping per zone is far less efficient.

As for zoning, I don't really see how that takes away from the fight. It's not like I am reccomending you to just DOT zone it. In the 5 or 6 times I killed SC, I never once had any competition so I didn't have to worry about zoning if the GA3 was cast in a bad spot.

[Raen Ryong]

Nah, it's just an efficient way of displaying information my method is just an adaptation of his anyway, since I read his first to get the ideas.

It's just adapted so you can make 5 pops per zone or so (sometimes 6) with a lot more detail on the fight itself~

[Lyltia]

Yes, I did read the second post and yes, I did acknowledge that it was more efficient in getting more chances at a Steam Cleaner spawn. Did you read my posts? It doesn't seem like it. I stated that my method was more efficient than Belkin's original post, and I assure you, it is. I also stated my rationale for why I don't bother waiting around for 10 Caretaker pops; when I'm in Sky soloing NMs, Steam Cleaner is only one NM on a list, I prefer to stay mobile to catch others as they pop. People do still bring alliances to farm Sky triggers for some reason, you have to be on your toes to grab those NMs before they do.

As for zoning taking something away from the fight? I mean.. if that's your idea of how to solo on RDM then hey, more power to ya. I'll bet that's really effective. I'll be in the basement, doinitrite, trying not to laugh at you.

[Antec]

As you can see in my last post I confused Belkin's strategy with Raen's. I never meant that zoning the detector is the right way to do it, and you can see that in my posts. It's also not that big a time sink to wait out the 5 spawns as the groundskeepers just despawn and it resummons fairly quickly.

When I solo NM's in sky I'm not there to prove anything. My goal is to get sky gems. So, if zoning to avoid a GA3 means I'll be getting sky gems more efficiently, then I'll zone to avoid a GA3 if it's otherwise unavoidable.

[Lyltia]

Lol, you're missing the point about the -ga3, sir. Allow me to reiterate, caps for emphasis.

IF YOU FIGHT IT IN THE BASEMENT, IT WILL NEVER, EVER HIT YOU WITH A -GA3. IT WILL HAVE NO CHANCE TO DO SO. YOU WILL HAVE NO NEED TO EVER ZONE TO AVOID ONE.

This is why zoning it fails; not because I think you have something to prove while fighting it. Are we done here yet?

[Antec]

I never said it was horribly wrong to fight it in the basement. Different people have different preferences as to where to kite SC. Both areas have their advantages and disadvantages. I prefer to fight it near the zone personally.

And you basically scoffed at zoning to avoid GA.
"Also, zone out at the top to avoid -ga3? Really? Do you zone away from Zipacna too? I thought this was the forum of the FFXI elite."

I merely pointed out the zoning because you listed it as a disadvantage to fighting near the zoneline stairs when it is avoidable at both the top and bottom of the stairs.

[Raen Ryong]

Different people have different preferences as to where to kite SC. Both areas have their advantages and disadvantages.

This pretty much ends the topic~

[Lyltia]

Oh I scoffed at it, that's for sure. I scoffed hard. As for personal preference? I hardly see what that has to do with anything. Some people "prefer" to TP in STR rings, after all. Personal preference does not magically make X equal to Y, when Y is clearly superior.

[Antec]

Comparing two kite paths with different advantages (only one detector to deal with that you can more freely choose when to kill and no chance at magic aggro vs. easier to avoid spells and TP moves) is nothing like comparing ring choices for melee.

[Lyltia]

Oh, but it is, because we're talking about the personal choice involved in making the decision, not the decision itself. Besides, if you think the magic aggro in the basement is worth listing as a con, I have nothing else to add, besides lol.

[Raen Ryong]

You're acting awfully high and mighty. Neither one is CLEARLY BETTER than the other. Using your method, you might not even pop a Steam Cleaner.

There is no clear superior way of doing it. Get over yourself.

[Lyltia]

/sigh

I already conceded that your method of popping it was better. I am merely maintaining that my method of killing it is superior.

Get over myself? Learn2Read.

[Raen Ryong]

You don't like the random chance of -ga 3 hitting you, I don't like the random chance of detectors which are not in fixed positions running into you.

Both personal preferences, nothing wrong with either. I just don't understand why you are so insistent on attacking one method; the implication that the difference between them as preference is the same as the "preference" between str and acc rings is a bit absurd.

[Lyltia]

Both are preferences, both are choices between an inferior and superior choice. Yes, the gap between the two examples is wide. I chose to refer to melee ring choices because it's pretty obvious which is better and which is worse, therefore making it a good example to use to illustrate my point. Focusing on the disparities between which example is glaringly worse than the other is missing the point entirely. If you want to debate semantics, find someone else to do it with, it's tiresome.

And again, hopefully for the last time, if you note the ToD of the Detectors, which is not difficult, you will know exactly when to anticipate them, making it a non-issue. This whole debate is retarded. If you have the choice between a straight line and a loop on which to kite a mob, which do you pick? There is zero reason to pick the straight line, end of story. Why would you purposely choose the kiting path where you have to double back constantly?

There was no reason for this thread to go on so long like this, and I apologize if I offended you guys, but you have to see this from my perspective. I'm giving solid reasoning behind my arguments for the basement; you're responding with "It doesn't matter, this is how I've always done it, it works fine for me, why bother trying something different." That's fine if you guys want to just keep doing it the way you've been doing it; I could really care less. However, I was under the impression that the purpose of debate was to find the best possible way to do something. Tired arguments for the status quo, or for something that's "good enough" are not worthwhile contributions.

To give another example of my point, you could easily kill Zipacna by zone DoTing it, or even just zoning out when he catches you with your pants down; does that make it the best way to go about killing it? No. Does that make it an acceptable way to get the kill? Sure, but that does not change the fact that you are doinitwrong. If you rely on zoning to avoid a NM's attacks, or have to do so to survive in the first place, I'm not going to look down on you, but I am going to seriously question how you intend to move up to harder NMs like Faust, Seiryu, Suzaku, etc. The zone is a crutch, and in the case of Steam Cleaner, a completely unnecessary one if you fight it in the basement. Which place to fight it in is better is not a matter of opinion, please stop treating it like one.

And dear god please don't reply with heated posts that you've soloed those NMs, how dare I cast aspersions against your character. I'm not singling anyone out, and I don't give a fuck what you've killed when. Again, I am using examples to illustrate my point.