DD Potential Discussion from Media

[Fridell]

Discussion wasn't really about zerg builds, etc. But if we include that, a B. Zaghnal(free) DRK will still zerg better, or just as good as an AH SAM.
It was a general statement. Even pre-75, a DRK has to do much more than equipping an easy-to-obtain weapon(Soboro) to play a worthwhile role in party.

So yeah, DRK is a lot harder to gear up in terms of efficency, but a DRK with not-so-great resources can still make a decent zerg build with Fortitude Axe, Zaghnal, etc.

For normal purposes, again, a DRK has to do much more than equipping soboro/hagun and stacking crapload of cheapass STR gear for WS.

Once again this!

I just need to add this, because of the SAM vs DRK expensive thing, my SAM was more expensive then my DRK, or maybe just sligthly.

[FailureMidgard]

Oh yes I definitely agree. A serious DRK should at least have a Ridill(Kris and club being the superior options) for zerging purposes. Plus the HP gear, etc.

However, I reckon cheaper/easier to obtain weapons like Axe/B. Zaghnal would be better than nothing for a DRK with very limited resources and different job priorities. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that DRK requires much more resources to be as efficent, or lets say as useful as a SAM.

The only reason a DRK requires more resources to equal a sam is because the sam class is by default a higher damage class. A sam without resources is still awful in comparison to a sam with resources, and really both jobs are gaining a very similar amount as they obtain better gear. As I said, a sam upgrading to usu feet is gaining more IMO than a drk getting an ebody.

For normal purposes, again, a DRK has to do much more than equipping soboro/hagun and stacking crapload of cheapass STR gear for WS.

...ya, Hagun is really cheap and easy to get. I mean, you can't get a bomblet, Black cuisses, Haub, Foragers, Potent, and virtually every other WS slot filled for the same cost. Really, go tell me the cost of a decent drk WS set, 'cause I guarantee you that you can put a very solid one together (with a few not hard to obtain r/e items like ohat) for less than the cost of a Hagun.

[Max™]

Well, if a basically naked Sam couldn't drop retarded amounts of damage in seconds in a high buff 2hr burning situation... then it wouldn't matter.

Sam, Mnk, War all get free "zerg the shit out of stuff" cards.
Bajillion WSes, Bajillion Hits, or Bajillion Crits + force critting Dmg varies with TP wses.

Drk gets to go find a Kclub or Mkris to beat them easily, a Ridill to make them fight to compete, Fort Axe/BZagh to be evenly matched.

Mnk zerg potential is obvious, War... well, if you pump bard songs up my ass and point me at something, every time I fire a WS I'm disappointed if it's under 2000 Dmg... the 300~340 Dmg crits don't hurt either, Sam may not drop 2k WSes every time during a zerg, but fuck me... Slept TP, Sekka for 2 WSes, Meikyo/Iwing for 6, Meditate for at least 2 more... all while wailing away in a high buff situation?

No, that isn't going to be hard to compete with for an AH Drk trying to zerg with a scythe.

[FailureMidgard]

Well, if a basically naked Sam couldn't drop retarded amounts of damage in seconds in a high buff 2hr burning situation... then it wouldn't matter.

Sam, Mnk, War all get free "zerg the shit out of stuff" cards.
Bajillion WSes, Bajillion Hits, or Bajillion Crits + force critting Dmg varies with TP wses.

Drk gets to go find a Kclub or Mkris to beat them easily, a Ridill to make them fight to compete, Fort Axe/BZagh to be evenly matched.

Mnk zerg potential is obvious, War... well, if you pump bard songs up my ass and point me at something, every time I fire a WS I'm disappointed if it's under 2000 Dmg... the 300~340 Dmg crits don't hurt either, Sam may not drop 2k WSes every time during a zerg, but fuck me... Slept TP, Sekka for 2 WSes, Meikyo/Iwing for 6, Meditate for at least 2 more... all while wailing away in a high buff situation?

No, that isn't going to be hard to compete with for an AH Drk trying to zerg with a scythe.

The discussion was about non zerg situations.

Maya-
- FFXIAH.com for a WS set that still costs less than Hagun, btw, and isn't the least bit bad. If I spent more than 2 minutes on it, I probably could have done even better. I'm not really sure why you are fine slapping a Hagun on the sam, and thinking the drk can't put anything together without a lot of resources.

[Fridell]

tbesides i was dropping my h2h merits at the time for gaxe.

Stop failing Rich oh and start a new character already and come back to Hades. N o w

[Mayareira]

...ya, Hagun is really cheap and easy to get. I mean, you can't get a bomblet, Black cuisses, Haub, Foragers, Potent, and virtually every other WS slot filled for the same cost. Really, go tell me the cost of a decent drk WS set, 'cause I guarantee you that you can put a very solid one together (with a few not hard to obtain r/e items like ohat) for less than the cost of a Hagun.

You are missing the point. Yes, with 3~ millions you can build decent DRK sets that'll make you a....good DRK. Better DRK, better than other not-so-smart DRKs.

- FFXIAH.com for a WS set that still costs less than Hagun, btw, and isn't the least bit bad. If I spent more than 2 minutes on it, I probably could have done even better. I'm not really sure why you are fine slapping a Hagun on the sam, and thinking the drk can't put anything together without a lot of resources.

That's exactly my point! That solid, cheap DRK set is ok when you limit your comparisons to the random DRKs out there. But to a competent/smart SAM? That set simply won't cut.

If you want your DRK to match a competent SAM for non-zerg purposes, you'll need ares' pieces, heca's, etc.

AH DRK can't simply match a simple, but competent/smart SAM gearset like;

Hagun
Pole
Sting
Walmart/Shura
PCC/Sea Gorget
Bushi
Brutal
Haub / +1
Dusk / Alkies
Rajas
Acc/STR
Amemet +1
Swift/Potent
Byakko's
Dusk

+ pieces for x-hit builds.

Let me put it this way, if a mage main asks you to recommend him an all around melee job that's easy to gear/efficient, which one would you recommend? DRK or SAM? Maximum efficiency and usefulness of an AH SAM is much higher than an AH DRK even if you completely neglect the cost.

[Max™]

http://i43.tinypic.com/28bxlw2.jpg

This post started it, funnily enough I missed the start of this thread pre-splitting mostly, but without knowing where it came from, I managed to find my way back around a full circle.

So in fact it was not just about non-zerg situations, as ignoring THAT aspect of Drk is incredibly arbitrary.

While we're at it, let's consider Drgs without Wyverns who don't use Jumps and lack Drakesbane.

Wars without a great axe, and Sams with Iki merits but no Nanatsuthingamjigotachi.

[Fridell]

A DRK without zerg gear is a DRG without wyvern! rofl

[Knyghtmayre]

Let me put it this way, if a mage main asks you to recommend him an all around melee job that's easy to gear/efficient, which one would you recommend? DRK or SAM? Maximum efficiency and usefulness of an AH SAM is much higher than an AH DRK even if you completely neglect the cost.

Bolded to show how much you're grasping at them straws.

IDC IF IT COSTS MORE, IT'S FROM TEH AUKSHUN HAWSE SO ITS SAME EXACT THING CANT U C

[Cream Soda]

Pup is actually the best DD.

[Mayareira]

Bolded to show how much you're grasping at them straws.

IDC IF IT COSTS MORE, IT'S FROM TEH AUKSHUN HAWSE SO ITS SAME EXACT THING CANT U C

I don't understand what you are saying. :/ About the bolded part, "...even if you neglect the cost." actually favors the SAM side of the discussion.

If you honestly believe that an AH DRK is cheaper/easier-to-gear and potentially as good as an AH SAM then there is nothing else I can say.

I am fucking tired of repeating myself.

[Seraphus]

For anyone who is seriously sitting around thinking

Omg it's SO hard for [insert job here] to do shit damage!

Come to Fairy server, we have so fucking many wasted relics that it'd make your god damn head spin.

[Chantal]

About Hagun, getting it really isn't all that bad. I (RDM) duo it with my friend Shiromaru (SAM) without APradar every 5 days. And we did it before he had Hagun, and even easier now that he does.

Uses his and sometimes both of our 2 hours, but it's not all that hard. We're working towards our 3rd Hagun now and we've done like 9 or 10 runs with no failures.

EDIT: Also, an AH SAM with no Hagun or Byakko's Haidate can do this. I don't think an AH DRK could, though.

[Zekyr]

I took DRK as my first job to 75. Had decent AHing gear for it, thick, hauberk, dusk, PCC, pretty much whatever you could buy (before I got into my first sky shell). Worked on merits, got into a sky shell, started accumulating EX pieces.

I took SAM up later, with the same shared gear, and nothing new at 75 apart from a freelotted shura haidate abj I got on DRK, no Hagun, no sky gear, nothing but my soboro and onimaru (didn't even use a pole or archery then) and was easily doing far, far better on nearly any event we did ranging from merits to sky/sea to dynamis/limbus. It was honestly depressing, I had no merits or decent gear and was doing so much more than my previous job I put so much into.

I eventually got some decent gear on SAM, haidate, osode, etc, and filled merits up, and the gap grew even larger. I still didn't have the magical Hagun and the difference between DRK and SAM was so stark I was SAM at 95% of things. Eventually, I got enough items for my DRK (homam, heca, etc etc) to the point where it was "good enough" to bring in substitution of the usual SAM to events, but it always felt like "if I was on SAM, I'd be doing more".

I feel like the difference between AHed, no expensive gear, low meritted DRK and SAM is a mile long power gap. At higher ends, fully merited, ebody/homam/etc on DRK and hagun/6hit/usukane SAM, it's still usually in SAM's favor, but the gap is smaller unless there's a distinct advantage (like polearm SAMs on birds, or HNMs you wouldn't melee for TP). While I don't have access to top top gear like apoc vs amano I can't take my opinion any further, but that's about all I can say on it from my experiences.

With decent AHed gear, some merits, few EX pieces, SAM whoops hell on DRK for general damage output.
With great AH gear, EX pieces, and capped merits, SAM usually still beats DRK for most purposes, but both are great jobs.

[Fridell]

Exactly what many of us try to say here:
SAM = easy mode damage and put up greats number without any exceptional & AH based / basic gear, with great gear, it becomes better, but not so much, as the difference between a DRK w/o exceptional & AH based / basic gear to when DRK obtains great gear.

Every other DRK probably knows what it takes to try to and outdamage other melees with great gear at times, DRK is way more work if you wanna keep up and do more dmg then for example SAM & WAR.

[Enedin]

The thing I like about DRK is that I can use some cool stuff like Absorb-TP and Stun. Granted, it's nothing OMGWTFBBQ, but I like it.

[Limlight]

a few people here really put the elite in elitist lol

[Gadritan]

Exactly what many of us try to say here:
SAM = easy mode damage and put up greats number without any exceptional & AH based / basic gear, with great gear, it becomes better, but not so much, as the difference between a DRK w/o exceptional & AH based / basic gear to when DRK obtains great gear.

Every other DRK probably knows what it takes to try to and outdamage other melees with great gear at times, DRK is way more work if you wanna keep up and do more dmg then for example SAM & WAR.

That's the draw to it for me. You have to be an exceptional player with exceptional gear to really shine as a DRK. SAM not so much.

[Ruuz]

I think SAM is the easiest job to gear well and (relatively) cheaply from the AH. As MNK, the gear I need to really make me shine is all R/Ex and if I were to buy it flat out (cost upwards of 10mil). While you can ignore this when talking about the upper potential of a job, it is something you must consider when it comes to how the job performs at all times (as many people playing MNK will not have a lot of the very good gear, and full usukane is out of reach for many).

I think DRK is even harder to gear as Ebody, Homam, and Heca are much more expensive (or take longer) than Dryadic Abj, Black Belt items, or Haidate. I guess they dont really have much to worry about in Salvage though, which is a plus.

[Gadritan]

I guess they dont really have much to worry about in Salvage though, which is a plus.

Ares's~