DD Potential Discussion from Media

[Gadritan]

Looks like THF it is <.<

[Burnsy]

Yeah. That's great. I can't stand MNK.

8million reasons why other people like it isn't going to change my mind.

Guess I'll flip a coin since no one has any real input.

They were trying to express the finer points of MNK as a primary vocation, it's something you get outta the boredom that stems from autoengaging, then spamming blinks because the tank you have is a failtard. It also stems from the fact that it's still one of the best pure melee solo jobs in the game (and /dnc is just broken). The subtle differences in jobs is what makes ffxi a great and replayable game. I can login, and find a new way to do the same thing with the same job everyday, I'm sure you do the same things with your "main".

The point is, whatever you consider as you "main" job, you will defend the utility of said job to the enth degree, and no amount of math/trolls/logical aruments will change YOUR opinion. Kohan was just giving you his take on how MNK can be really fun, slo you could maybe find a niche in the job that got you back to it.

You can go back to complaining about 2 handed-Xhit-Hassospamming-brokenness now, I'm goin to go punch something.

[Gadritan]

The point is, whatever you consider as you "main" job, you will defend the utility of said job to the enth degree, and no amount of math/trolls/logical aruments will change YOUR opinion.

I'm so fucking guilty of this. lol

[Burnsy]

I'm so fucking guilty of this. lol

11 pages in standard kinda said that already bro :D

Max: I still wanna duo with your PLD and WAR some day, move to Ragnarok ; ;

[FailureMidgard]

I see nice numbers. Thanks.
Is it possible to count in JAs / merits / spells etc and do math for these?
Edit, and account for that DRKs can have different WS setups for their Guillotine depending on mob, where SAM can keep their STR for G/Y/K.

You want to start from 0 merits, and compare to full merits? I don't need to do any math to say that SAM gains -way- more from merits (+19% WS dmg) than DRK can dream to gain. If you just mean assume the low tier and high tier chars both have full merits, well, that shouldn't change much at all except for the starting point on relative damage. The multipliers would remain the same.

Also, I'm not sure why everyone is so set on the "DRKs have different WS setups depending on mob"...that's a difference that will set apart a good DRK from a bad DRK. If you go fight even higher level mobs, that isn't going to help the DRK catch up because he can give up nearly all his STR to pick up more accuracy/attack to keep similar ratios. Furthermore, a good SAM will likely have some differences in WS gear too. Smilo+1 vs Foragers. Osode vs Haub+1 (or Askar). There are many mobs that a SAM will actually not be attack capped in normal gear.
In any case, I don't see how different gear sets will help out a DRK in the distinction I made. As I said, on a higher level mob, a DRK is giving up str/etc to gain accuracy (which actually just maintains the 95% hit cap) and perhaps a little attack. A SAM is also gonna give up a little strength, but will also no longer be fSTR capped (meaning they gain more from their extra STR).

In the end, I think both jobs gain very similar amounts from actual gear upgrades. One of the main reasons that the comparison I did had the SAM gaining more than the DRK, is the fact that the SAM started out like 4% lower on hit rate, and 2% lower on haste, while ending up 1% higher on haste. If the SAM had Rajas+Shinimusha in the first example, it would have allowed for 3% more haste, but I specifically ignored Rajas since there were comments made about CoP missions being harder than Zilart, taking effort/etc. So the low tier gearsets assumed no sky, no sea.

[Gadritan]

As I said, on a higher level mob, a DRK is giving up str/etc to gain accuracy (which actually just maintains the 95% hit cap) and perhaps a little attack.

No not rly. Carry on.

[Ruuz]

I keep trying to finish my SAM and MNK, but I keep losing interest in them. I don't know why. They just bore me for some reason.

Any suggestions for someone who prefers melee style jobs?

I just wanted to get some input before I start to gear up another job.

So, when you said you wanted input, you really were just asking rhetorically? Of course, nothing could possibly entertain you about said jobs, so you will just keep playing DRK, amirite?

Really, it is all subjective. Sure, playing MNK isnt like a fighting game (this would be sooooooooo hardcore btw), it is an RPG. You take pleasure in the accomplishments and abilities of your character. I like to imagine myself as a bad ass mother fucking brawling elf (I play this character type in any rpg I play and it is the reason I started FFXI to begin with), so of course I take enjoyment from seeing my character hitting hard and fast, even if I have only indirectly affected his movements.

DRK on the other hand I just find feels boring and slow. Plus, real men fight with their fists.

Counterstance is an awesome defensive ability if paired with utsusemi.

You see, THAT is the problem. I DONT WANT UTSUSEMI! I want Berserk, Double Attack, and Warcry. FUCK UTSUSEMI. Give MNK its' own third eye, or boost Guard acc (and remove Acc from counter calculation).

I'm not sure exactly how well Guard affects enemy WS (some claim it can nullify a WS), but make it so. Nothing is worse than feeding a bird TP via constant Counters and having it tear you in half with one pecking furry.

[Gadritan]

So, when you said you wanted input, you really were just asking rhetorically? Of course, nothing could possibly entertain you about said jobs, so you will just keep playing DRK, amirite?

Nah, I was being serious. I'd continue to use DRK for big stuff, but I wanted something else to play with at smaller events and soloing etc like I said. I actually use my DRG more than any other job to be honest. It's always been my favorite job on the fun scale since there's a plethora of things you can do between gear and SJs and it's useful for so many different things.

SAM and MNK are boring to me. But I wanted to see what people felt were the pros and cons of other melee jobs as far as -fun- potential. With the exception of WAR DRK and DRG of course since I have those lvled already.

[Burnsy]

I'm not sure exactly how well Guard affects enemy WS (some claim it can nullify a WS), but make it so. Nothing is worse than feeding a bird TP via constant Counters and having it tear you in half with one pecking furry.

Guard can cut down a enemy WS to 15% effectiveness iirc from Genome's (insertlolsifneedbe) testing, yet I am unsure how it would work against a multi-hit enemy WS.

I do agree that MNK should get a "Guard Stance" to compliment Counterstance, and give us a higher chance at the ability which is so unique to mnk a real chance at doing something for us, and not just randomly go off.

But, if you're sitting on zerk already, you're gonna get rocked, one way or the other. Meriting Invigorate would be your most logical course of action if /WAR is your sub of choice. Once you hit a certain point in merits/gear/beefyness tho, just sub nin and accept it for anything outside lolcolibri, (which is the worst baseline for anything) because a dead MNK/WAR does alot less damage than a live MNK/NIN.

If you don't take that into account, you either play with the best mages/tanks ever or you are a:

[Ultimagi]

Blue Mage has a high degree of versatility, much like Dragoon.

[Max™]

I'm not leaving Carby ever again. I missed it too much.

Pld/Dnc is so fun though, even more so with Atonement and an aspirable target so I can aspir samba and use MP only for cures.

I seriously suggested Pup btw, but you do have most of the shit for Thf too.

I've used that "well... I'm gonna go punch things now" phrase on Monk.


/p Know what your face needs?
/ws "Raging Fists" <t>
/wait 3
/p More fist.

[Gadritan]

Ya know. I didn't even think about that. It's such a hybrid I had dismissed it.

For the kind of shit I like to do it would be really nice I think.

Edit: Talking about BLU. I'm galka man. I've seen galkas in PUP AF already. Nothx <.<

[Ultimagi]

For the love of god, use /echo.

[Gadritan]

Hahaha. Don't worry. When I play a job, I do it right.

There's a reason I haven't had a "main," in any LS for years. It's not uncommon for me to use all 6 jobs throughout the day at events.

[Max™]

I had two WS macros, one without the /p line.

I'd only use that one now and then for laughs.

Monk really needs an update, as it is arguably the DD job with the purest focus on damage dealing. It shouldn't take full Usu and a black belt to compete with just above AH geared 2hed DD's...

[Fridell]

Gadritan, I like, also he is Galka, so he autowin, just too bad he doesn't like MNK
Oh and stuff like "competing with 2H DDs and DRK vs SAM and what not, comes with 3 tons of how the players plays, not suck ass VS extremly good, it can be very good VS very good, just that one of the very good, is 3% less good then the other one, and gear.
I've out damaged so so so many ppl as MNK SAM DRK, really good ppl with great gear.
And have seen others do aswell, this is why i don't really buy all crap in this thread.
There is too many factors, playstyle, mob, your mage, what haste might drop when etc etc.

[Ultimagi]

Here's an update for you:

Hamedo
Job Trait
Augments Boost. If an enemy attacks you, its attack round will be replaced with one of your own.

[Gadritan]

Gadritan, I like, also he is Galka, so he autowin, just too bad he doesn't like MNK

rofl. That's the only reason I've even pushed to try to lvl it. It's kind of sacrilege for a galka not to have MNK at 75. One day maybe, one day... <.<

[Fridell]

NIN & DRK, good enough for me bro.

[Burnsy]

Monk really needs an update, as it is arguably the DD job with the purest focus on damage dealing. It shouldn't take full Usu and a black belt to compete with just above AH geared 2hed DD's...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this a million fucking times, ceiling sundi, babel fish this, print it out 100 times, and beat the fucking devs over the goddamned head with it. (tho every MNK needs to get a Black Belt for me to accept that they truely want to play the job "right")

While I love being king high shit in salvage, I hate that I have to do it 4-6 times a week to try to even get usukane gear in under 10 years, and that I would have to give up being able to hit 25% gear haste in 4 pieces to use usukane to it's full effectiveness...That and it's fuck plug ugly. I'll stick with my Zilart/CoP pimpness.