DD Potential Discussion from Media

[azagarth]

what i think is funny is how ppl will talk about how close war drk and sam are... bitching about how its so close and thus no reason NOT to invite them.... However place a different job that the person isnt and its back to "no that job sucs!"

i smell so much hypocrisy here its sic. Seriously..... Sam overall is best dd merits, just that simple get over it. They can mitigate dmg without having to really hurt their output, Whereas a drk or war to keep up has to sub sam and hasso fulltime. Hell if you want to get down to it mnk/war will probably out do them too, but you dont see people ever talk about that because its impractical, same as SE on drk in xp and /sam full timing hasso on war and drk. xp/hr is the key and that takes defense too.

Having a good pup in party wont lower xp, but Im not going to see any one of you inv me on that, but sure as hell will see you inv my sam without a second thought. I always get asked why i party on mnk and not my sam nowadays, and i tell people i can do more without costing more mp, and thats hard to grasp....

drks king of zerg, sam of xp, blm of hnm, brd of invites..... Yes all jobs can come close to eachother but people are not going to start inviting thfs to birds, pups to mmjsp (blm auto = insta #1 in parse if smart) because sam's are always looking for a pty and a suc sam is still going to do decent dmg compared to another suc dd....

if you expect a pty chance as equal as that of a sam,war,brd,cor,rdm and your not one of them you need to consider this. Would you inv a job that isnt the cookie cutter top merit job? If the answer is "no i will not inv a pup/mnk/thf/bst/blu/nin/etc...." then you sir deserve no inv too on a non cookie cutter dd job, which drk is not.

this is not just directed at you raen but all the people i see complain about how the job they love is not chosen over the cookie cutter job....

[Fridell]

Really, SAM is overrated, by a fucking lot.
And saying DRK is a mediocre DD compared to SAM WAR, is just false.
For Dynamis, Limbus, merits etc I have no real problem to keep up or and beat WAR SAMs.

And yes, compared to SAM, DRK & WAR will be a job that sponge MP if they wanna do great, but who the fuck merit with random ppl anyways? LS merits and fulltime Hasso and Souleater as much as you can, easy prey. Only times I really merit with "random" ppl is when I merit with Starr, and then I dont really go all out because he usually manage to get some semi-decent RDM haha! And usually I'm not in the range of being "crushed" by his WAR, when he have /nin we're always around same numbers, and when he /sam he outdo me by a few% depending on random crap. Oh and incoming hate on Starr I bet, but he's one of the best WAR's I've been with. Hell I've even beaten Bravura WAR before! ...but it was Swat so that doesn't count haha

[Wolfknight]

drks king of zerg, sam of xp, blm of hnm, brd of invites..... Yes all jobs can come close to eachother but people are not going to start inviting thfs to birds, pups to mmjsp (blm auto = insta #1 in parse if smart) because sam's are always looking for a pty and a suc sam is still going to do decent dmg compared to another suc dd....

bullshit assuming you're talking birds, dragoon > sam flat out generally, I've parsed againist really good sams w/polearm and guess who lost, wasn't the guy w/drakesbane that's for sure.

[Fridell]

DRG owns Birds, that's it, no need to further discuss that.

BTW, I think Richardd nailed this discussion the best here.

[Jakson]

Man, what happened to the WAR vs. MNK vs. etc/CoP vs. Zilart vs. ToAU/Meat vs. Sushi sticky thread? Lost to the nether regions in the last forum upgrade?

[Wolfknight]

Man, what happened to the WAR vs. MNK vs. etc/CoP vs. Zilart vs. ToAU/Meat vs. Sushi sticky thread? Lost to the nether regions in the last forum upgrade?

I think so, it would seem.

[Starr]

Um Fridell let's be honest, I have beat you by a few % when subbing NIN using Great Axe with 0 Great Axe merits, before Ebody/Cuch etc AND 2 boxing COR!
DRK can't really keep up to WAR

[Fridell]

You mean, when you HAD E-Body (not Cuch Mantle though) using /NIN and dualbox with 0 GA merits VS my 4 Scythe and after my death I had no more food and not capped merits
Either way, its not you're my only example '.'

[Starr]

I'm talking about the La Vaule S PT, where Ruju was 45% dmg with Apoc

[Killkenny]

I think the point half the posts on this page have managed to ignore is that drk has lower potential than the other 2h DDs, obviously a pimp drk is going to outparse an average war. War has the greatest potential for high pDif situations because raging rush can put out huge numbers and it isn't limited the same way Gekko is now, as soon as you move onto the higher level targets were defense and level correction start to skew things then sam will be the preferred DD.

Drk is fine at DDing but it will never match war or sam, and its debatable about drg also. Nobody is saying drk can't DD, just that its never going to be as good. People still play mnk though so lets all laugh at them instead.

Also, drg owns birds but if you get a sam with decent penta gear and 5 hit tp build, then it owns everyone including drgs.

[Faris]

what a bunch of nerds, this is a stupid arguement i'd find in alla..but BG? oh wow

[Starr]

Oh sorry Firas, we all give a fuck about your opinion, do forgive me.

[Klain]

Didn't expect it to turn into this lol, I was being sarcastic

Though honestly, it's always good to see people's views on jobs

[Killkenny]

Oh sorry Firas, we all give a fuck about your opinion, do forgive me.

One of the few times I will agree with Starr. What # account are you on now, seems pretty nerdish to spend so much $ on a game.

[Therin]

People need to learn to stop looking at birds parses as "which DD is better." A THF can outparse DRK/SAM/WAR on birds if he's doing his job right.

Yes, birds is a good merit camp, so it does need to be considered, but unless you're taking 25% off any Piercing-bonus DD's parse results, your results just aren't valid when you're looking at the performance of a specific job.

actions speak louder than words. to me it was never about job > job, but the person behind it and their playstyle/aggressiveness over the next guy.

Exactly, and this is why I love DRK so much. There's a level of versatility that you can't get from other jobs if you play the job aggressively and with the right gear/support.

Take, for instance, during Dynamis - Tavnazia. This is a zone that requires a number of different, specific strategies - some mobs you can melee, others, not so much (clusters). You also need Stun at times (Nightmare Worm, eyes, Taurus). While yes, most of the time you bring a good four BLMs or so in order to take care of these situations, it's nice to have an extra person stuck in who can provide the Drain II/Stun assistance that DRK can.

For the first portion of the zone, DRK performs its duty as a DD on just about the same level as SAM or WAR, but once you get to the Cluster pulls the DDs pretty much have to sit and thumb ass while the BLMs burn them down. I take pride in being able to throw on 330 Dark Magic skill and take off about 12% of a Cluster's life in one Drain II. It could mean the difference between getting your entire alliance rocked with Self-Destruct and not.

Another situation is in Nyzul - on a pudding or slime that is heavily melee resistant, you'll find that that same Drain can take off much more than a WS would've. Drain and Dread Spikes allow you to basically solo your way through sets of mobs. In the same vein, a clutch Stun to stop a -ga III or Chariot TP move saves a lot more MP and time than just being able to do 5 or 10% more damage would've, since the pulls aren't coming in back-to-back like they do in merits and you have time between them in most cases.

I'll never say that a DRK is the top parse without a relic, or something like that. Yes, it is outclassed by WAR/SAM and SAM/WAR. Even my own NON-merited WAR/SAM outparses my merited DRK. That's just the nature of the jobs! But, I love DRK because of its utility and how good it is at doing a complete 180 and changing job functions in a pinch, when necessary.

[Kipling]

I agree totally that it's about playstyle. Rich, vey - if you guys see this I know you'll remember with me how INSANE Aztech's drg was. That guy made me totally re-think the job.

[Fridell]

Naw really, its just because these days everyone think SAM is so superior no other job is even close, and yea, I'm fine with that mostly everyone is retarded, too bad retardations doesn't beat one me.

Btw, did you'll know PUP beats a WAR with Haub+1 and Luisant HQ gear and other "best" pieces around LV 54-63? Also beats Polearm SAMs 54-63.

[Starr]

The only thing SAM shines on for me is Nyzul Isle, sweet job there but I don't have MNK to compare yet.

[Killkenny]

pt with better drgs, I've beaten 5-hit sams[though barely when not counting wyvern and 3~5% w/wyvern].

I've partied with better geared drgs than you who have full timed hasso and WS'd as soon as its sensible to do so and Polearm sam still wins. Party with better sams.

Already been said 100 times before that drk can DD and it depends on the player and gear but it doesn't change the fact it still falls short of other 2h DD.

[Demosthenes11]

I've partied with better geared drgs than you who have full timed hasso and WS'd as soon as its sensible to do so and Polearm sam still wins. Party with better sams.

Already been said 100 times before that drk can DD and it depends on the player and gear but it doesn't change the fact it still falls short of other 2h DD.

jesus that's all I was trying to say lol

you can drain II clusters in tav if you want to do damage, but i'd either a) have another blm instead of the drk or b) send the melees to farm other shit while blms kill clusters.