DD Potential Discussion from Media

[Rikura]

I'll concede I haven't seen an impressive DRK tank. They have the ability to maintain hate better without being engaged even, which is true. But if we need a true tank, we have PLD. My point is that we're prepared for anything we lowman and we have the jobs fit in exactly as we need fit--tank, DD, support. DRK is no doubt DD with a bit of other categories, but this boils down to preference. I prefer a pure tank, and pure DD in low-man. It's hard to deny that SAM will do more damage in a lowman, lesser-buffed situation.

But anyway, the tanking aspect of the jobs--that's not talking about pure DD potential which the topic title says. Shit's situational and each job has their ups and downs

[Sanjiyan]

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3...lffxiv2od8.jpg

Reposted for profit.

Yeah I know, lolPUP really isn't lolPUP anymore, imo they rock now.

[Raen Ryong]

Why the fuck would one job need more or less haste? Haste simply acts as a multiplier, and all jobs mentioned get meditate.

More haste available, the more damage you do during Last Resort which is a pretty insane amount in those 30 seconds. It's why LR Effect/Recast is such a no-brainer for me over Souleater recast for general DDing for nonrelic at least.

[Knyghtmayre]

Even fully meritted, Last Resort is 24.6% increase in attack whereas Berserk is a 25% increase in attack for 6x duration. Yet DRK needs haste more?

[richardd]

More haste available, the more damage you do during Last Resort which is a pretty insane amount in those 30 seconds. It's why LR Effect/Recast is such a no-brainer for me over Souleater recast for general DDing for nonrelic at least.

actually i went that route too lol. i never used SE much even in EXP. LR was used whenever it was up. i loved it. i do miss DRK. that was one job i geared up really well, even if it wasnt my strongest/merited job. i just had so much fun with it lol.

[Raen Ryong]

Even fully meritted, Last Resort is 24.6% increase in attack whereas Berserk is a 25% increase in attack for 6x duration. Yet DRK needs haste more?

Last Resort is also +15~25% haste for the duration~

Will increase WS damage too, which Berserk won't do on Tachi:Gekko on the lower end of mobs.

[Knyghtmayre]

Last Resort is also +15~25% haste for the duration~

Will increase WS damage too, which Berserk won't do on Tachi:Gekko on the lower end of mobs.

Oh, with capped DB it's -25% delay but regardless, it lasts for 30s. Also, why would anyone be using Gekko on the lower end of mobs? Even if something isn't weak to piercing, it's going to take assloads more damage from Penta than Gekko simply from [either the lack of an attack cap or an extremely high cap] on a multi-hit.

[Raen Ryong]

Polearm is unlikely to be at 95% accuracy which means Penta Thrust won't be as consistent as Guillotine, and although you can 5hit or whatever from polearm you are also gonna lose some WS frequency which closes the gap. Scythe is going to be doing monstrous damage per swing on top of that.

I'm not saying DRK > SAM, just that SAM isn't a clear cut winner again

[Gadritan]

But if we need a true tank, we have PLD. My point is that we're prepared for anything we lowman and we have the jobs fit in exactly as we need fit--tank, DD, support.

Sorry. I thought your point was:

And especially in low-man situations, I'd take a SAM or WAR over DRK. Why? Because they can all tank just the same.

So is everyone in agreement that the same well geared/merited WAR will do more damage at bird camp with his well geared/merited DRG? I still have to slip on /anon to get out to bird camps on DRG most of the time.

[Rikura]

Well I did start off my original post talking about preparedness...but eh, I got some insight on something interesting. Hopefully I'll see an impressive DRK tank some day but bias is riddled within our posts and it got kinda off-topic. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic when you're referring to the two quotes, but I'll assume you weren't.

In pick-up merits, I never get asked to go DRG either ;/ Seek on SAM, /anon, and go as SAM or DRG, whichever I feel like having fun on. Lately I feel like I do more on 5-hit Tomoe SAM than 6-hit Valkyrie's Fork DRG, but I've got no parses to back this up at the moment--you could say it's baseless. But I think the consensus is that an equally-geared DRG does than WAR at birds...

[Vail]

So is everyone in agreement that the same well geared/merited WAR will do more damage at bird camp with his well geared/merited DRG? I still have to slip on /anon to get out to bird camps on DRG most of the time.

I don't really see a a drg losing by much if any (hell I personally mostly win my bird camps parse)
If I AFK on drg, I'll get invites for bird camp from NA and JP alike... last time I was at birds against a war it was a Ebody-ridill war/nin, I know totally unfair in my favor, but really: I can understand they came out on war/nin cause it was a pick-up party, and he probably had no idea there was a strong DD out there like me.

In pick-up merits, I never get asked to go DRG either ;/ Seek on SAM, /anon, and go as SAM or DRG, whichever I feel like having fun on.

I've had a few people try this on me, I usually boot them. When I invite someone as a job: that's what I wanted. I don't invite SAM and WAR only, I mix it up, and I'm pretty fair, but if I see you on one job and ask you to join that's the job I expect you to play unless I say otherwise.

a good party leader who makes sure to take people out to an open camp, make sure the PT is setup with the support and damage in the balance they need, and make sure that people's play time is considered, deserves the respect of people not trying under-handed stuff to "mix" the party up.

[Gadritan]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic when you're referring to the two quotes, but I'll assume you weren't.

In pick-up merits, I never get asked to go DRG either ;/ Seek on SAM, /anon, and go as SAM or DRG, whichever I feel like having fun on.

Nah, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was just explaining why I brought up all that tanking stuff. PLD was my first job, so I always perk up when I hear tanking mentioned. That's also why I have so much tank gear for my DRK. I can use literally almost all of the same tank gear for both jobs.

I need to keep reading threads like this to stay motivated enough about my SAM to finish it. I always really liked SAM as a job...I just get really bored playing it. I don't know what it is about it. Halp!

[Gadritan]

I've had a few people try this on me, I usually boot them. When I invite someone as a job: that's what I wanted. I don't invite SAM and WAR only, I mix it up, and I'm pretty fair, but if I see you on one job and ask you to join that's the job I expect you to play unless I say otherwise.

a good party leader who makes sure to take people out to an open camp, make sure the PT is setup with the support and damage in the balance they need, and make sure that people's play time is considered, deserves the respect of people not trying under-handed stuff to "mix" the party up.

I've been booted by people like you before, lol. Always thought it was amusing given the fact that the odds are they'll end up replacing me with some AH DD. And my DRG is, well, not AH.

[Rikura]

It is under-handed and disrespectful, I guess, but most pick-up merit parties I encounter aren't anything super. Most of the time they don't give a crap once I reach the camp and there's usually someone horridly gimp. I've come to just play it for fun in a typical pick-up group. If the leader or anyone has problems, I'd either change or politely ask to be replaced. I avoid these shenanigans if I'm partying with any remotely familiar people.

If the leader and group is sensible, so I'll be too. If they're not, then I'll just have fun.

[Topher]

NIN > DRK at DDing anything cept Zerg fight or Apoc. DRK.

Also I have out DDed SAMs on EXP mobs with NIN. Before you ask gear was the same give or take an item or 2... but nothing to cause the difference.

NINs can also out DD Ridill WARs (LOL) on EXP mobs... but most DDs can do that.

NINs slack @ HNMs tho ; ;

As far as HNMs are concerned...

Need an SC? Take SAMs!

Need huge numbers every couple mins? Take WARs!

Need mob dead in under a min? Take Multi-hit/Apoc. DRKs or WARs with 2hr up!


Its not hard to figure this stuff out!!! DRKs are not gonna do well on anything without a full haste build and Multi-hit weapon/Apoc.

EDIT: Changed from "full haste build or Multi-hit weapon/Apoc" to "full haste build and Multi-hit weapon/Apoc" cause one without the other is gimp

[Tubbers]

But if we need a true tank, we have PLD. My point is that we're prepared for anything we lowman and we have the jobs fit in exactly as we need fit--tank, DD, support.

Sorry. I thought your point was:

And especially in low-man situations, I'd take a SAM or WAR over DRK. Why? Because they can all tank just the same.

So is everyone in agreement that the same well geared/merited WAR will do more damage at bird camp with his well geared/merited DRG? I still have to slip on /anon to get out to bird camps on DRG most of the time.

He was saying in low man situations where a real tank wasn't needed, he'd take a SAM or WAR over DRK, because their damage potential is higher sans super-buff mode and Apoc, which a low man situation is not going to yield. Then he went on to say if a true tank really was necessary, Paladin is the answer.

@Rikura: You seem to be a very angry person, blaming and embracing bias as the solution to the DD debate. I know you're claiming to be a fully competent DD with the heat on full blast no matter what job you play, but that doesn't mean you should turn the heat up in your apartment. If I ever met you I get the feeling that we would not get along at all.

P.S. I can't believe you agreed to the FF:CC thing... you better not take all the money this time.

P.P.S. Shouldn't you be studying you clown?

[Gadritan]

NIN > DRK at DDing anything cept Zerg fight or Apoc. DRK.

Also I have out DDed SAMs on EXP mobs with NIN. Before you ask gear was the same give or take an item or 2... but nothing to cause the difference.

NINs can also out DD Ridill WARs (LOL) on EXP mobs... but most DDs can do that.

NINs slack @ HNMs tho ; ;

As far as HNMs are concerned...

Need an SC? Take SAMs!

Need huge numbers every couple mins? Take WARs!

Need mob dead in under a min? Take Multi-hit/Apoc. DRKs or WARs with 2hr up!


Its not hard to figure this stuff out!!! DRKs are not gonna do well on anything without a full haste build or Multi-hit weapon/Apoc.

lol. I was waiting for someone to do that.

[Topher]

It had to be said... this whole tread is pointless! This has been debated over and over and over!!! The only reason this is still going on is cause every now and then some silly DRK gets it in their head that they can compete with the better DD jobs. GTFO... DRK are Zerg only!!!

If I wanted a DD I would take PUP before DRK!

[Rikura]

I can't tell if Topher's post is sarcastic (I'm really bad at detecting sarcasm) but if it isn't, *facepalm*

@Tubbers: From your accusations of me turning on the heat in my apartment to go in sync with the heat of DD competence, it is clear that we can not get along. You must have semi-retarded family members. I am not flaming, by the way, just being cold.

P.S. Yes, been studying all day. Lurking the forums every once in a while helps to cool me off.

[Topher]

I can't tell if Topher's post is sarcastic (I'm really bad at detecting sarcasm) but if it isn't, *facepalm*

@Tubbers: From your accusations of me turning on the heat in my apartment to go in sync with the heat of DD competence, it is clear that we can not get along. You must have semi-retarded family members. I am not flaming, by the way, just being cold.

P.S. Yes, been studying all day. Lurking the forums every once in a while helps to cool me off.

The PUP comments are sarcasm...

As for your comments to Tubbers... why would you bring his family into a disagreement on some games forums? Its uncalled for... there is no reason to do that!

In closing, you sir are a fucking porch monkey