California marijuana debate

[miokomioko]

I think I was pretty clear. Hard to stutter on the internet.

wat?


There's some pretty large assumptions being made about what I (don't?) know about being high. I used to do it often, I stopped, I know many many many people who still do, I lived with a pothead/dealer, I live with a pothead now. It's really all around me. It's just immensely annoying.

While I think there's no real reason to not legalize marijuana, I honestly do not think it will happen. Not by my hand though, I would vote for it because I think it's drastically less chaotic/destructive than good 'ol celebrated and abused alcohol and perhaps some people might find it an alternative. However, the things that could potentially bother me about this topic (OP), is 1) the amount of retards that would swarm to California because it's closer than Amsterdam, 2) the possibility of many irresponsible people walking around high in public/driving/other inappropriate times in blind celebration of its new legality, and 3) the smell of it, I hate the extremely potent stink of marijuana smoke.

I just can't see the substance that's been getting kids grounded for life and busted by cops for decades and decades all of a sudden sold in liqour stores when the majority of people pushing for it are the stereotypes that people associate with the drug. I grew up near Santa Cruz, I've been exposed to a lot of the ridiculous ends of the stereotypes regarding weed. There's just going to be too many people against it, I feel. I'd like to see a list of restrictions/policies/etc involved if any state got seriously serious about this.

[archibaldcrane]

I've smoked weed maybe...80 times in my life or so (I'm 28 ). I've accidentally blown through about...4 or 5 red lights in my life (from not paying attention, spacing out, whatever) - 3 were while high. I drive with a BAC over, say, .06 at least probably twice a week and have for years - I've never blown through a red light while buzzed.

One single hit of a joint makes me -way- worse a driver than drinking a bottle and a half of wine, it's not even a question.

This is not true for everyone - some people are terrible buzzed drivers but are fine driving high. However, both are illegal for good reason (although personally I was more comfortable with Wisconsin's old .1 BAC limit - .08 is too low in my opinion)

[Gadritan]

That's part of the problem with legalization. While they do have the technology similar to a breathalyzer to prove someone has marijuana in their system, it's too expensive for them to implement in law enforcement agencies at the moment. At least, that's their reasoning, and it makes sense.

Granted that the ability to tax marijuana would pay that back rather quickly, they're still not willing to cough up the money right now. While I don't agree with it since it would help the economic strain tremendously in the long run, I can understand their logic.

But yeah, they do need a way to hit people with DUIs when they're high. While some people can handle it, there's too many people out there that simply can't, and shouldn't as a matter of public safety.

[Max™]

I think your impression of your driving ability while "buzzed" on wine is better than your actual driving ability probably is.

I'm pretty well coordinated, I can do a lot of things while drunk without an outside observer being able to determine I was drunk.

It requires a fuck ton of concentration, and the slightest lapse results in a tire crossing into the next lane, or stumbling into a wall.

Whereas when you get high (I'm assuming only high, not high + drunk which is bad), you're extremely aware of any mistakes you make, and again you may be one of the people who get significantly impaired reflexes.

I'm not personally saying that I think it shouldn't be a DUI to drive while stoned, but while I'd NEVER hop in a car with a guy who was "buzzing" from some wine at the wheel, I have never observed impaired driving from the various people I've ridden with, even while I myself was completely sober.

I can juggle while riding a bike down a sidewalk and stoned off my ass. I've in fact done this.
I can generally ride a bike while drunk, results my vary.

[Gadritan]

Yeah. I don't understand why people assume legalization means it wouldn't be regulated in any way, such as DUIs.

They act like it would suddenly be legal to just do whatever the fuck you wanted to while under the influence.

We don't do that with alcohol. Why the hell would we do that with marijuana?

[Dimmauk]

I would never want to live in California. I'd rather live in Massachuetts. HI2U Question 2.

[Max™]

For the record: I haven't smoked pot in about 7 years now, mostly due to lack of access, and for a while I had a job that piss tested.

I'd definitely do it again if I had regular access, pot is great.

[archibaldcrane]

I think your impression of your driving ability while "buzzed" on wine is better than your actual driving ability probably is.

I'm pretty much a professional wino. We even have our own website The Young Winos - Edutoxicating Los Angeles and Beyond since 2005

I'm not saying I'm some amazing buzzed driver (and I'm talking borderline DUI here - .06 to .08, not tanked by any means) - I'm just -way- fucking better at it than after a hit of weed. Driving while high, for me, = spacing out for a quarter mile at a time, then snapping back like "whoa fuck I don't even remember what I was doing for the last 20 seconds".

It affects different people differently.

[dabis]

I've smoked weed maybe...80 times in my life or so (I'm 28 ). I've accidentally blown through about...4 or 5 red lights in my life (from not paying attention, spacing out, whatever) - 3 were while high. I drive with a BAC over, say, .06 at least probably twice a week and have for years - I've never blown through a red light while buzzed.

One single hit of a joint makes me -way- worse a driver than drinking a bottle and a half of wine, it's not even a question.

This is not true for everyone - some people are terrible buzzed drivers but are fine driving high. However, both are illegal for good reason (although personally I was more comfortable with Wisconsin's old .1 BAC limit - .08 is too low in my opinion)

I guess it really comes down to your brain chemistry and how substances affect your body when ingested, because I've driven high a few times in my life and the amount of focus I was able to put in to it made it easy to not make any mistakes. I know you may think, "well your judgment while high probably isn't that good, so saying your drove fine is a silly claim". Well, I've driven with both friends, and at one point I even drove my mother around on errands while high and she didn't notice a thing(she's extremely cautious while driving too).

That being said, I've drank plenty of times in my life, but I've never once even considered getting behind the wheel of a automobile after having any drinks. The physical and mental delays that alcohol has on my body leave me absolutely sure that if I attempted to drive after drinking, I would be much worse of a driver. As stated earlier in this thread, I'm not saying that marijuana can't impair a driver's ability to control their vehicle, especially after the consumption of copious amount of ganja. Overall, I think that the legalization of marijuana would be a good decision economically since the demand would be there for it, but we can't know for sure yet whether pothead related accidents will increase until tests or legalization happen. At the end of the day, I would rather drive with many people under the influence of marijuana over just a few drunk people anytime.

[Max™]

Sounds like you have very low tolerance and very good pot.

For me to space out when I was regularly smoking required a visit to Mr. Green's house, we called him Mr. Green because he was a substitute teacher who caught my sister and I skipping school one day, took us to his house, explained why we shouldn't have done this... and then when I thought he was going to call our parents... he asks "do ya'll smoke?" To which I always reply 'Not cigarettes' and he pulls out this big green bong with a funny looking bowl.

I lifted the bowl after charging it, trying to find the breather hole... was an accident, and powertoked it, coughed and wheezed and hacked and felt like I was dying for a few seconds... then WHOOSH, it's like the back of the couch was laying on the floor.

Man he had some great pot.

[archibaldcrane]

Sounds like you have very low tolerance and very good pot.

Yes to the former and it doesn't really matter for me to the latter. Good pot will destroy me in one hit, bad pot will still get me high in a hit. Either way if I drive I'm apparently subconsciously looking for motherfuckers to T-bone at red lights because space out so bad.

[Max™]

A lot of that is your personal chemistry, which is unpredictable regarding the effects of drugs and why I think driving while stoned should be treated legally the same as driving while drunk.

For every person who can actually drive wonderfully while drunk, you get guys like the one I found in a ditch a few years ago, car on it's side pinned between the wall of the ditch and a tree... the tree sheared the roof off just above the doors, smashed it into the back seat.

Took the driver with it, ironically the passenger didn't have his seatbelt on, so when they went over into the ditch, he jerked forwards and the roof missed him completely.

I found him assuming he was the driver, learned later what actually happened, and where that... shit and blood and bile smell was coming from.

[archibaldcrane]

A lot of that is your personal chemistry, which is unpredictable regarding the effects of drugs and why I think driving while stoned should be treated legally the same as driving while drunk.

Completely agree, and weed should be legal with similar alcohol restrictions (although I think that the 21-year-old thing is fucking stupid).

[Skeeterxi]

It should be legalized and treated exactly like alcohol. Honestly, I think alcohol is a lot worse than pot. How many alcohol related deaths are there every year compared to weed. Its not like you can overdose on weed either, you will just pass out.

[dabis]

Yes to the former and it doesn't really matter for me to the latter. Good pot will destroy me in one hit, bad pot will still get me high in a hit. Either way if I drive I'm apparently subconsciously looking for motherfuckers to T-bone at red lights because space out so bad.

See, in that situation you know that driving after smoking any amount would be a bad idea, so obviously the only answer for you is don't drive while high. There will always be people on the road while drunk or high, but if you choose to get intoxicated and get in a vehicle when you know that you will not be able to drive safely, it's your fault if you injure yourself or others. Whether it be alcohol or marijuana, people can use their judgment to decide if they deem themselves safe or not, and if they think they can't handle it at all, they shouldn't be behind a wheel. It's when people ignore their better judgment and get in a car anyways that accidents happen.

[archibaldcrane]

Yeah.

Of course it took me driving probably 20 times while stoned in high school to figure out it's probably a bad idea. I didn't drink in high school because I always drove, and noone ever said "don't drive while high" - so it was kind of a learning process...

But yeah. (never hit anything or got any tickets - got lucky)

[Kerberoz]

You shouldn't be driving under the influence of either of them. I'm all for equal penalties for DUI of pot or alcohol, even though alcohol clearly affects the average person's motor abilities much worse.

[archibaldcrane]

Meh. The law clearly states you are legally able to drive under the influence of a certain amount of alcohol - this isn't a "zero-tolerance" thing. If you could easily measure weed in the same way, the rational thing would be to institute a similar policy...but I don't really think you can.

[dabis]

Even if DUIs are defined by certain BAC levels, if you are pulled over by a cop and you have alcohol in your system, you will still be in trouble. Obviously not as much, but still. I knew a person that got fined after having a glass or two of wine, but they obviously weren't anywhere near drunk.

[Gadritan]

Meh. The law clearly states you are legally able to drive under the influence of a certain amount of alcohol - this isn't a "zero-tolerance" thing. If you could easily measure weed in the same way, the rational thing would be to institute a similar policy...but I don't really think you can.

They can. It's the cost of implementing the equipment to law enforcement that's preventing this as a viable option in their eyes.