Schools that are really businesses...

[Darus Grey]

"hey boss, I need this class at 1-3, can we schedule around that?"
"Sure, you're fired, take as much time as you need"

lol @ "make the time"...I'll be over here living in reality.

[Tristam]

If you look at school as a means just to get a degree, then yeah, you're just gonna get the same degree you would have gotten anywhere else and get the same job you would anywhere else.

If you're looking to get into a good grad program with a great advisor, or you got a great internship that turned into the resume builder that set you apart from everyone else that drank their way to a BS, or got an opportunity to do an independent research project, etc. etc. then you're taking actual advantage of what a good university has to offer. This is the kind of stuff you cannot get in any way from an online POS "college". It doesn't matter if you go to Yale or Devry if you think getting a degree alone gets you the job of your dreams, the difference between the two are the options available to take advantage of. Shit, I think most people going to college these days would be better served going to a trade school.

[Beckwin]

most "real" universities offer legit distance learning programs nowadays, especially for post-grad stuff.

[Tristam]

most "real" universities offer legit distance learning programs nowadays, especially for post-grad stuff.

also very true, should mentioned that if you're working in summers and want to graduate early, try to fill in liberal arts requirements and such that you could give two shits about online. Sometimes credits from online universities transfer ok, but make sure you check it out. I had a buddy that did this and I was jealous as hell when it all worked out for him. He didn't graduate early but most of his entire senior year was doing research, got a second authorship on a publication out of it.

[Korietsu]

"hey boss, I need this class at 1-3, can we schedule around that?"
"Sure, you're fired, take as much time as you need"

lol @ "make the time"...I'll be over here living in reality.

Then you don't need the degree. One of the two. You have to make the hard choice if you really want that degree. That means going back to pinching pennies, or waiting tables or holding two jobs down, that's what you've gotta do. You have to be willing to sacrifice to get to that goal sometime or another.

[Kohan]

"hey boss, I need this class at 1-3, can we schedule around that?"
"Sure, you're fired, take as much time as you need"

lol @ "make the time"...I'll be over here living in reality.

Yep.

I had to drop out of college classes and eat the money lost several times due to things changing around at work. Sucks, but them's the breaks.

If you've got a job where you're allowed to adjust your schedule, more power to you, but not every college student -- particularly considering those paying their own bills -- is so fortunate.

Then you don't need the degree. One of the two. You have to make the hard choice if you really want that degree. That means going back to pinching pennies, or waiting tables or holding two jobs down, that's what you've gotta do. You have to be willing to sacrifice to get to that goal sometime or another.

What kind of response is this? If those two restaurant jobs change your schedule around and don't care that you're going to college, what do you think is going to happen? This is over-simplifying the matter about as much as one can.

[Demosthenes11]

naw bro i got mah bachelerzzz w/o debt and now i haev a jerb thats only req is to have a bachelerzzzzzzzzzzzz

dats sick bro u should frame dat bach and put it in ur living room and call it ur bacheler padzz

[Korietsu]

Yep.

I had to drop out of college classes and eat the money lost several times due to things changing around at work. Sucks, but them's the breaks.

If you've got a job where you're allowed to adjust your schedule, more power to you, but not every college student -- particularly considering those paying their own bills -- is so fortunate.



What kind of response is this? If those two restaurant jobs change your schedule around and don't care that you're going to college, what do you think is going to happen? This is over-simplifying the matter about as much as one can.

That's not the point of the matter. If you've got to choose between your degree, and eating/car/roof/etc, that means that you're going either A, going to cut back on car/food/roof/etc, and eat the lost time at work, or B, you're going to drop the class. That's the whole point.

My father didn't want to work 7 days a week for the past 20 years, but hey, that's how he keeps the roof on our heads. Sure, he could have had more free time and we could have had a really small home (smaller than 2k sqft), less land, and had no luxuries like internet, cable tv, AC, etc. I know that I didn't get to be in a car that had AC in it till I was 12-14, and I didn't have a place of residence that we began to own until I was 16. I didn't get to eat school lunch, I ate lunch on a total of $4 a week. Sandwich + water bottle. Parents didn't eat out, and we cooked every meal at home or packed food with us.

My dad picked up a better job, and he's still working 7 days a week 10+ hours a day, but we've got more luxuries now than we had before. You make the choice, and quite frankly, I don't care about job QQ. If you really want something, you'll go for it, no matter how much bullshit gets thrown at you.

[miokomioko]

Did you walk uphill both ways?

[Kohan]

That's not the point of the matter. If you've got to choose between your degree, and eating/car/roof/etc, that means that you're going either A, going to cut back on car/food/roof/etc, and eat the lost time at work, or B, you're going to drop the class. That's the whole point.

My dad picked up a better job, and he's still working 7 days a week 10+ hours a day, but we've got more luxuries now than we had before. You make the choice, and quite frankly, I don't care about job QQ. If you really want something, you'll go for it, no matter how much bullshit gets thrown at you.

Saying that it's that easy to just "cut back" is unrealistic. It doesn't matter that your daddy pulled it off (and if he was that financially strapped, what was he doing having children?). The whole mindset of "if one person can do it, everybody in the world can!" is naive, and flawed.

People may be able to get what they want if they keep going for it. You shouldn't give up. However, simply saying that you'll succeed no matter what if you don't give up is unrealistic. There are people who have it far worse than you did as a child, whose parents worked hard, and didn't have enough money left over to pay for an education. If it's the difference between a roof over your head and some more credits toward your degree, you're going to go for the shelter.

You can't just get rid of a house, or easily sell off a car and purchase a new one, or suddenly get rid of a kid every time you need money. You can't expect to find another job waiting for you if you leave or are fired from another one because of college. If these things work out, cool, but this is not just a matter of an individual's willpower.

I did ultimately obtain a higher education, but it wasn't easy. I'm definitely not alone. You seem to realize that it can be tough, and yet, you're blind to some very real factors that prevent people from just "cutting back." It isn't always that simple.

To say so is about as ignorant as the people who claim "everybody who lives in the ghetto is there because they're lazy," which is a stupid statement.

[Korietsu]

Did you walk uphill both ways?

No, I didn't. But my parents bent over backwards for what little we have now, and they did indeed travel through rain, sleet and snow to go to school. My father worked 80 hours a week + took 20 hours in classes with a new kid, then got drafted into the service, he knows a bit about hard work, and quite frankly, I'm glad he can provide what he does.

Hell, I've never even been on a plane to an out of state destination money is so tight with us, and I rarely get to travel for vacation. The last time I was on a vacation away from home to an area over 200 miles away was driving to the coast for 4 days and coming back, and that was 5 or so years ago.

[Korietsu]

Saying that it's that easy to just "cut back" is unrealistic. It doesn't matter that your daddy pulled it off (and if he was that financially strapped, what was he doing having children?).

I did ultimately obtain a higher education, but it wasn't easy. I'm definitely not alone. You seem to realize that it can be tough, and yet, you're blind to some very real factors that prevent people from just "cutting back." It isn't always that simple.

To say so is about as ignorant as the people who claim "everybody who lives in the ghetto is there because they're lazy," which is a stupid statement.

At the time, my father had no financial problems, and was recently moving to texas when my mother got pregnant. However, that doesn't change after the fact that he managed to pull through all the financial shit that's been sent his way, and we're slowly recovering from a recent pay cut that hit every employee in the whole business that he's working at right now. It was no job or an 8% pay cut. He took the stability instead of being greedy when he could have easily gotten a job down the block doing nearly the same thing. If you need to get out of a shitty situation you start looking, and when the time comes, you make the change from one job to another.

I'm not blind to these factors. There was recently an article in CNN or consumerist about a couple that saved their first million in the bank by cutting back and moving out, cutting bills down, no longer going to do frivolous things, and being tight with money. I'm not saying dropping everything in it's place, or even swapping out completely, but there are steps that you can realistically make so that you can go get what you want done.

Also lol @ghetto comment, that's just a no win situation on their parts, they've got the chance to come out, but because of the social and economic factors, its much harder than it should be, and it might require generations of work up, rather than a decade of hard work by one person.

I probably won't get to go home this summer because of a shitty professor so I can continue with my current schedule, making me spend more money, time and effort than I should have, and pick up an extra job on top of that to cover my costs. But hey, I've gotta do what I've gotta do.

[Mojo]

If you look at school as a means just to get a degree, then yeah, you're just gonna get the same degree you would have gotten anywhere else and get the same job you would anywhere else.

If you're looking to get into a good grad program with a great advisor, or you got a great internship that turned into the resume builder that set you apart from everyone else that drank their way to a BS, or got an opportunity to do an independent research project, etc. etc. then you're taking actual advantage of what a good university has to offer. This is the kind of stuff you cannot get in any way from an online POS "college". It doesn't matter if you go to Yale or Devry if you think getting a degree alone gets you the job of your dreams, the difference between the two are the options available to take advantage of. Shit, I think most people going to college these days would be better served going to a trade school.

This x100, all other points in thread being moot.

[Kohan]

Your latest comment was a lot more reasonable than the "you have to make the hard choice" line you'd spewed earlier. The "I don't care about job QQ" was gold, too. Suddenly you're the sympathetic, but prior to that, you dismissed these situations as if these people weren't trying hard enough, by your standards. You span it as if having to drop out of a class was the lazier route. That's bullshit, plain and simple.

You seem to be able to understand things from a rational standpoint. Considering, you can't honestly believe that people will always be able to have a job lined up. Your father may have worked hard, but it's obvious that he was also lucky. It wasn't all just because he was willing to put the time in. The world doesn't always accommodate even the most determined blue collars.

That's mainly what I took issue with. You can't simply dismiss people because they're not your father -- who, to you, is an example of determination and good fortune -- especially without understanding their entire situation.

[Darus Grey]

Then you don't need the degree. One of the two. You have to make the hard choice if you really want that degree. That means going back to pinching pennies, or waiting tables or holding two jobs down, that's what you've gotta do. You have to be willing to sacrifice to get to that goal sometime or another.

Or you know...just take the online courses that are specifically designed to meet the needs and schedules of working adults.

What you suggest is outright stupid.

[Korietsu]

Your latest comment was a lot more reasonable than the "you have to make the hard choice" line you'd spewed earlier. The "I don't care about job QQ" was gold, too. Suddenly you're the sympathetic, but prior to that, you dismissed these situations as if these people weren't trying hard enough, by your standards. You span it as if having to drop out of a class was the lazier route. That's bullshit, plain and simple.

You seem to be able to understand things from a rational standpoint. Considering, you can't honestly believe that people will always be able to have a job lined up. Your father may have worked hard, but it's obvious that he was also lucky. It wasn't all just because he was willing to put the time in. The world doesn't always accommodate even the most determined blue collars.

That's mainly what I took issue with. You can't simply dismiss people because they're not your father -- who, to you, is an example of determination and good fortune -- especially without understanding their entire situation.

Quite frankly, you shouldn't commit to something if you can't do it. My dad was out of a job for quite some time, and even out of a car. There have been days that although his car hasn't worked, he got out, started walking to his job, and called for someone to pick him up somewhere down the road. He's had his fair share of time at the unemployment office too, and he's always found something, even if it was for less than he was worth as a worker to keep going.

I'm a reasonable person, but my beliefs are the same. If you want something bad enough, you'll find some way to get to it, regardless of how many people, buildings, shoes, and blue jeans you need to get it. Even if it means being poor for a while. As my school's dean put it " Revel in the time that you spend here being poor, unable to eat proper meals, working too hard, and being underpaid in your efforts as a student, as it is the last time you'll ever be heralded for it. "

Or you know...just take the online courses that are specifically designed to meet the needs and schedules of working adults.

What you suggest is outright stupid.

I raise you this:

You've got the time to sit on your ass at home, that means go to a real 4 year, see what they offer in distance learning.

[Darus Grey]

You raise with a contradiction? An interesting strategy for sure, I also like that you went the extra mile of editing the pre-generated code to mis-spell my name, nice touch.

Oh...and I raise you...

This may be hard to believe, but if you already have a career, going back to school is a nightmare because of class scheduling, online classes relieve that nightmare by allowing you to watch lectures, etc when you can(or at work!lulz). Which still isn't an excuse to go to any of those schools, there's plenty of "real" schools that offer the same thing.

To which of course you replied about sacrifice...uphill both ways...quitting a job YOU ALREADY HAVE to go back to waiting tables. I mean sure, why the hell not, just do it. Why take the easy just as equivalent way when you can take the ass-pounding hard way?

I just said that online courses are good for people already working...I don't see what there is there to disagree about.

[Korietsu]

You raise with a contradiction? An interesting strategy for sure, I also like that you went the extra mile of editing the pre-generated code to mis-spell my name, nice touch.

I didn't take the time to quote directly, since I was editing the post. My bad. My point is, that if you've got free time at home after your work schedule, or if you can't attend night classes, you can finish up extra classes via distance learning from a 4 year if you want the accredited degree.

Also, you'll never finish a four year degree completely online that's accredited. You'll have to give in somewhere.

[Kohan]

Quite frankly, you shouldn't commit to something if you can't do it.

And now you've gone back to these kinds of statements. To be honest, you're confusing. How can you condone working hard one moment, and then say something like this the next? If you're committed to getting a higher education, having to postpone it due to other complications doesn't mean your commitment doesn't count.

Basically, this:

I'm a reasonable person, but my beliefs are the same. If you want something bad enough, you'll find some way to get to it, regardless of how many people, buildings, shoes, and blue jeans you need to get it. Even if it means being poor for a while. As my school's dean put it " Revel in the time that you spend here being poor, unable to eat proper meals, working too hard, and being underpaid in your efforts as a student, as it is the last time you'll ever be heralded for it. "

Reads as if it completely contradicts what you said above.

Also, your school dean sounds like a shitbag. The line you've quoted, as a matter of fact, reminds me of your own posts: supposedly well-intentioned, but easily interpreted as thinly-veiled insults. So, someone who isn't attending college shouldn't be commended for trying their damnest to eke out a living?

The odd thing about this discussion is, the longer it goes on, the more it could seem as if I'm arguing for the sake of political correctness. That really isn't it. What I'm opposed to is the sparkling, superficial, unrealistic notion that "if you pour your everything into something, you'll definitely get it." As aforementioned, you should always try your best when you really want something, but trying to paint life as if success is therefore guaranteed -- it's garbage. It's insulting to everyone who truly has given their all and failed due to circumstances beyond their control.

[Darus Grey]

I didn't take the time to quote directly, since I was editing the post. My bad. My point is, that if you've got free time at home after your work schedule, or if you can't attend night classes, you can finish up extra classes via distance learning from a 4 year if you want the accredited degree.

Also, you'll never finish a four year degree completely online that's accredited. You'll have to give in somewhere.

Do you really want to take that bet? After being a level 75 corsair, I'm a gambling man...and I know a hedged bet when I see it.

Spoiler: show

Many(actually most) lolUniversity of Phoenix programs are accredited...why you think online colleges aren't...well it's consistent with the rest of your argument anyways so why ruin your fun