Do you think Hand-to-hand weapons should allow Grips?

[Gtype954]

I always wanted to see MNK get Tonfa (police night sticks) and/or Nunchaku (nunchucks).

If you remember the very first FF, the fighter/monk had chucks to use until they got to level 10 ish, then went H2H

And its always bugged me that some knucks i.e. cross-counters/retaliators have big ass spikes, or like the T.M. hooks that are clearly bladed but still do blunt dmg
Avengers = three blades
I think all of the Katars are bladed.

But to the original question it would be neat to see them get something cool. I do not know what it could be. maybe some kind of cloth or leather "wrap" for the handle?

This right here this ^^^^.

I wish monks had access to blunt,peircing, and slashing damage h2h weapons.

-Cesti are clearly blunt damage. They are wooden looking and flat like a coconut.
-Bagnakhs are clearly slashing damage. You hit them from "up to down" instead of "straight ahead" Claws.
-Avengers are clearly peircing damage as you stab the enemy with them by punching them with the blades "straight ahead" with the tip of the blade and not the middle of it. They are like daggers on your fingers.
- Not sure where I would place knuckles and they are blunt and have spikes on them, I would still consider them blunt as they are kind of like "Kleets" shoes.

Hand to hand weapons have a "pole" inside of them that you grip onto when using them. Clearly they can use grips in real life to enhance them like sandpaper grips and stuff.

I hope in the new MMO, they do add tonfa and nanchukus with their own unique style to them.

monks are beasts in nyzul isle, salvage, einherjar, Dark Ixion, and merit Party.
But the "big mobs", the ones you cannot attack from behind with SA-DK are not very mnk friendly.
Do you think people will allow you to go mnk to king behemoth, khim, cerb, or PW? They need something. Letting them use stungrips is like a bluemage with a fast headbutt recast timer and it could be helpful enough to be allowed to bring your mnk to an HNM for once instead of your mage job lol.

[Arcticfox]

Just a note to the people saying 1Hers would cry about not being able to use a grip: 1H can equip shields, and the one who can't naturally (NIN) gets a second weapon.

[Ruuz]

Destroyer/Hades Sainti... hmmm.

Hades Santi/Faith Baghnakh

Course, you realize they would add the delays together.

Monk needs another MA trait, and Footwork needs to use 2her str/dex formula.

That's my vote.

Tbh, I dont think we really need another martial arts trait, but I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE to get me over 20 more Acc/Att. That would just be soooooooo awesome if Monk could cap Acc as easily as 2h'er. We could wear more STR/Att gear and still eat meat (this idea turns me on so much). NIN's would cry in being left out, but SE hates NIN anyways.

[Silpha]

Just a note to the people saying 1Hers would cry about not being able to use a grip: 1H can equip shields, and the one who can't naturally (NIN) gets a second weapon.

Or give us some wristguards a la Heiachi in soulcalibur 2, to replace the shield :D

[Argettio]

1H users w/o /NIN (eg THF/WAR) get to a buff from their sub slot using a shields like Viking Shield.

So 1H users cant really cry, they get to fill that slot regardless of their sub.

So I would like to so see either MNK allowed to use grips or a new Category called 'Wraps' that only work with H2H weapons (possible some MNK onry).

Wraps would basically be the same as a grip, just with a lower proc version of the platinum grip etc and maybe some other stats you can't get on grips (not sure what).

Edit notice some one else brought up the shields thing

[Burnsy]

If I recall correctly, certain H2H weapons DO have different damage traits but only in the normal attacks, not WS(Indra Katars?), but I don't want to make a conjecture as to if it is fact, if someone could clarify this for me?

Grips would be cool, wraps would make more sense, but really, thats all a grip is... just a wrapping on the hilt. DA or more crit would be nice, and there is already a H2H weapon that stuns:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Stun_Jamadhars_%2B1

I'm more into the 2 separate knuck idea, but that is because I'm an old FF lover, and if Sabin and other MNK type characters could utilize 2 different weapons, FFXI should consider it as well.

I would also have to agree if SE did this, they'd fuck it up.

GType - That's what Chi Blast is for, and if you have a mage job in a HNMLS, it's your own fault for telling them you have it.

[KSDI]

Indra Katars are blunt damage, the only H2H that's different is the one that drops from TresDuendes, the Vampiric Claws, and yes they have slashing dmg but not active on ws. This was tested in the limbus with the different weapon types.

[hagun]

H2H and dual wield should be subject to 2H STR/DEX calculations. Screw grip/straps.

[Starless]

As a PUP, I can easily say we could use the help more than you Monks. I voted yay.

[Cozmo]

Burnsy MNK can't use the HQ verson of those only thf/drk/nin.

[Acturus]

Grips were another great example of how SE forgot to follow through with a plan.

Grips should have been the first step in a three-step process, where the second two steps would have included new Shields with similar purpose and ability, and H2H-specific measures that also performed in the same capacity.

H2H users would definitely benefit from having grips or grip-like additions to the sub slot, but it shouldn't stop there. SE should really revisit the concept of what Grips did and expand it.

[Greatguardian]

All weapons need to be subject to 2H Str/Dex calculations. Then 2-handed weapons need to further be subject to 3H Str/Dex calculations (1DEX=1Acc, 1Str=1Attack). Then, all Relic weapons need to be changed to Attack+20 Accuracy+20 regardless of whether it's 1H or 2H. And MNKs need a Haste+16% Belt because +12% isn't enough to cap haste while fulltiming Shura Haidate+1. And KA needs to be force spawn with a steam clock, and 100% drop on Vbelt. And Odin shouldn't expend your feathers. Dring should be 50% drop.

Seriously, MNK is ridiculously broken as is. Yeah, we're not typically invited to come out to KB or fafhogg. Having multiple jobs is a boon, and being adaptable to different sorts of situations is a necessity in ffxi. If you're really intent on coming Mnk to every event ever, skill up Staff, level /Sam and /Thf, and bring a Mekki Shakki to HNMs. It's about as good as a Sam using a PLM. Except without the +25% piercing bonus >.>. Footwork is a piece of junk for normal situations, but it shines when you need to DK something.

Mnks, you've got an incredibly powerful job class with wonderful active and passive abilities. Quit taking it for granted.

[Burnsy]

All weapons need to be subject to 2H Str/Dex calculations. Then 2-handed weapons need to further be subject to 3H Str/Dex calculations (1DEX=1Acc, 1Str=1Attack). Then, all Relic weapons need to be changed to Attack+20 Accuracy+20 regardless of whether it's 1H or 2H. And MNKs need a Haste+16% Belt because +12% isn't enough to cap haste while fulltiming Shura Haidate+1. And KA needs to be force spawn with a steam clock, and 100% drop on Vbelt. And Odin shouldn't expend your feathers. Dring should be 50% drop.

^ is what we call "Breakin' the game" but, relic buff you mention should be implimented, all relics should be inherintly broken as hell

Seriously, MNK is ridiculously broken as is. Yeah, we're not typically invited to come out to KB or fafhogg. Having multiple jobs is a boon, and being adaptable to different sorts of situations is a necessity in ffxi. If you're really intent on coming Mnk to every event ever, skill up Staff, level /Sam and /Thf, and bring a Mekki Shakki to HNMs. It's about as good as a Sam using a PLM. Except without the +25% piercing bonus >.>. Footwork is a piece of junk for normal situations, but it shines when you need to DK something.

Mnks, you've got an incredibly powerful job class with wonderful active and passive abilities. Quit taking it for granted.

"Incredibly powerful" job? "Rediculously broken?" Let's just forget that anything over Merit level monsters laugh their fucking heads off at blunt damage, that long/dot heavy fights have given way to Zergs or Ranged engagements, or Skillchain/MB with SAMs only, and that the pDif functions favor high damage, long delay weaponry?

Monks in previous FF games were hands down the most effective melee class available. Sundi has a hard-on for Domarus and has tipped the scale accordingly. A small change or addition to Monk would be a welcome addition to one of the ORIGINAL 6 jobs, which 3 of have received SIGNIFIGANT changes/buffs. Footwork is a situational/small WS buff, that doesn't even come close to comparing to zerk/hasso and /sam or /thf staff mnk is still stuck waiting 1-2 minutes AFTER you get tp to boost to the 999 atk cap to make Full Swing worth using.

We aren't taking shit for granted, people that love MNK want it to be recognized by SE and the general playerbase and to legitimate it for ANY situation, much like they've done for SAM, WAR, or even to an extent, DRK.

[Greatguardian]

Mnks lose parses on merit level mobs? You're kidding, right? If we're talking about Merits, MNK is one of the toughest kids on the block.

You want to talk about pDif functions? You do realize that Mnk and Pup have the single largest mathematical boost out of all melee jobs in the area of fStr, aye? H2H Weapon Rank is calculated based on the Weapon's DMG rating +3, completely ignoring Base H2H Damage from h2h skill. Ie: Destroyers are treated like a Rank 3 weapon (18+3/9). We don't need shit-all for Str to cap our fStrs compared to other jobs, *especially* 2-handers.

As for MNK being useful in ANY situation, how much more can you ask for? We're powerful DoT/DD machines, with an incredible capacity for tanking. We can heal ourselves, and buff individual stats at will. We can contribute Non-Elemental damage any time we want, via either Formless Strikes or Chi Blast. We can use both h2h and 2-hand weapons effectively. I feel much safer tanking shit on my Mnk than my Nin.

MNK can do a lot more with a lot less support than War in the low-man department. I dare you to try and solo anything on War/Sam or War/Nin. Sam and Mnk tank with completely different methods as well. Some situations favor Sam, others most definitely favor Mnk. You can't be a jack-of-all-trades with 1 job in a game designed to promote teamwork and versatility.

I bloody Love MNK. It was my first job, and it's still by far my favorite. And yes, I'd love to have some new toys for it. But to think that we need them is a sore misconception.

[Hyan]

Events that Monks get stuff from tend to have merit level mobs anyway, so I don't see a real problem if we can't excell in HNM situations. As far as I know zerg fights still use Monks due to their 2 hour anyway.

[Burnsy]

Mnks lose parses on merit level mobs? You're kidding, right? If we're talking about Merits, MNK is one of the toughest kids on the block.

No, read again, I said OUTSIDE of merits MNKs fall short.

You want to talk about pDif functions? You do realize that Mnk and Pup have the single largest mathematical boost out of all melee jobs in the area of fStr, aye? H2H Weapon Rank is calculated based on the Weapon's DMG rating +3, completely ignoring Base H2H Damage from h2h skill. Ie: Destroyers are treated like a Rank 3 weapon (18+3/9). We don't need shit-all for Str to cap our fStrs compared to other jobs, *especially* 2-handers.

Forgive me if I screwed this up, I am not a math nerd, I know MNKs are treated differently in the calculations, and that STR isn't as vital as ATK/Skill, it just always felt like the math was in the 2handers favor, once again on anything that matters (IE: not lolibri)

As for MNK being useful in ANY situation, how much more can you ask for? We're powerful DoT/DD machines, with an incredible capacity for tanking. We can heal ourselves, and buff individual stats at will. We can contribute Non-Elemental damage any time we want, via either Formless Strikes or Chi Blast. We can use both h2h and 2-hand weapons effectively. I feel much safer tanking shit on my Mnk than my Nin.

Situationally I'll tank on MNK way better than on NIN. That situation being that I can hit the thing I'm tanking. Anything you can't hit worth a shit/shouldn't hit is what PLDs and NINs are for. If you feel safer on MNK, get more HP gear for NIN, or get less shitty support.

What the fuck ability do you have that lets you raise your STR/DEX/VIT/AGI/MND at will? Did I miss something all these years, or do you have a full time 2 boxed BRD giving you etudes? Boost/Focus/Dodge/Cstance are great tools, but fall WAY short of hasso/zerk when it comes to DoT, which is MNKs niche.

Formless only works as much as you merit it, and losing higher tier penance or invigorate upgrades for something I *might* use occasionally, not worth it.

MNK can do a lot more with a lot less support than War in the low-man department. I dare you to try and solo anything on War/Sam or War/Nin. Sam and Mnk tank with completely different methods as well. Some situations favor Sam, others most definitely favor Mnk. You can't be a jack-of-all-trades with 1 job in a game designed to promote teamwork and versatility.

Here I agree that lowman/solo MNK has an edge. What situation favors a MNK tanking outside of salvage? What situation favors anything but PLD in HNM? None. Teamwork? lol, you mean cliques, thats what this game's teamwork promotes, nothing more.

I bloody Love MNK. It was my first job, and it's still by far my favorite. And yes, I'd love to have some new toys for it. But to think that we need them is a sore misconception.

I'm glad you're a first job MNK, but like so many other's I've seen, they simply say "MNK doesn't need shit" once they've leveled 2-4 other jobs.
I think that we "need" a "new toy" simply because ALL the other pure DDs in the game have gotten something rather signifigant/useful in he last 2 years while MNK has gotten, Footwork and /dnc.

[heavensword]

/sarcasm on
Double attack 2% on both hands is a total waste, just like 6% crits.
/sarcasm off

[Yugl]

What the fuck ability do you have that lets you raise your STR/DEX/VIT/AGI/MND at will? Did I miss something all these years, or do you have a full time 2 boxed BRD giving you etudes? Boost/Focus/Dodge/Cstance are great tools, but fall WAY short of hasso/zerk when it comes to DoT, which is MNKs niche.

He was refering to ATT/EVAs/ACC and the other stat buffs through JAs.

[Greatguardian]

He was refering to ATT/EVAs/ACC and the other stat buffs through JAs.

^ This.

And fuck if we haven't received any significant boosts. Have you played any of the jobs that did before they got said boosts? They needed them, bad. WHM was a Cure V / Shellra V whore compared to Rdm in usefulness before the addition of /Sch and the 4/8 update.

The math is *not* in everyone-but-Mnk's favor on things that matter. Mnk is down a few acc from the lack of Hasso and 2H Dex conversion, but if it comes down to it a Mnk eating the right food with decently nice gear is going to parse plenty high on these NMs. The "problem" being that we feed mobs TP. If you're so damn worried about MNK losing Berserk, then sub WAR! And like I already said 3 times, if losing the 2-h/hasso/SATA buff is such a huge detriment to you, just get a staff. I've seen Mnks do upwards of 2k on HNMs with a fully boosted SA Full Swing.

I don't need the personal attacks, or your generalizations about how I treat my Mnk after leveling other jobs. Even with 4 other 75s on my main, and 2 more on alts, I still adore my Mnk more than any other job and play it 99% of the time I'm not at events. And when I am at events, my particular ls tends to need my Whm more often than not. Not a big deal. When I'm not Whm at events, I'm MNK. Because it's bloody good.

[Burnsy]

^ This.

And fuck if we haven't received any significant boosts. Have you played any of the jobs that did before they got said boosts? They needed them, bad. WHM was a Cure V / Shellra V whore compared to Rdm in usefulness before the addition of /Sch and the 4/8 update.

The math is *not* in everyone-but-Mnk's favor on things that matter. Mnk is down a few acc from the lack of Hasso and 2H Dex conversion, but if it comes down to it a Mnk eating the right food with decently nice gear is going to parse plenty high on these NMs. The "problem" being that we feed mobs TP. If you're so damn worried about MNK losing Berserk, then sub WAR! And like I already said 3 times, if losing the 2-h/hasso/SATA buff is such a huge detriment to you, just get a staff. I've seen Mnks do upwards of 2k on HNMs with a fully boosted SA Full Swing.

I don't need the personal attacks, or your generalizations about how I treat my Mnk after leveling other jobs. Even with 4 other 75s on my main, and 2 more on alts, I still adore my Mnk more than any other job and play it 99% of the time I'm not at events. And when I am at events, my particular ls tends to need my Whm more often than not. Not a big deal. When I'm not Whm at events, I'm MNK. Because it's bloody good.

First, I said that you were right and that I did not fully grasp the math involved. Why are you stuck on that?

What personal attacks? Where did I call you and idiot/fucktard/moron? You are interpereting my views as attacks because I'm not agreeing with you and pointing out where our differences in opinion lie. That is not an attack, that is called a difference of opinion.

If I wanted to attack you personally, I'd find pics of you on the interbutts, post them here, then comment about how ugly you are. Since I'm not, don't get all Defender-Dan when someone disagrees with you.

Your own generalizations are where I have issue with your statements, and frankly I think you have an over-developed sense of what a MNK is capable of realistically. Staff MNK is, and forever will be, a joke. Yes I know all about 12 boosting Full Swing, no I don't have sam lvl'd to 37 because I can't stand 400+ delay. I do have /thf and know all about E-Peen numbers on certain mobs that will allow it, and yes I have a Mekki-Shakki. My issue with this method is that you waste time getting tp, waste MORE time boosting to 11-12, all for something a SAM can do in under 1 minute, while facing a mob. 1k+ dmg every 4-5 minutes from a MNK/THF =! 1k+ every 2-3 from a SAM/WAR

This poll and then following discussion is about Hand-to-Hand, not staff. Yes, you can sub WAR and have zerk, yes you can sub SAM and get hasso/seigan (if you have a staff), is it worth losing to whatever you're fighting because you're not subbing NIN spamming blinks, and hitting your target with a Rank 3 A+ skill weapon? Nope. Any addition to the H2H aspect of MNK would be welcomed by anyone that knows and loves the job. Simply because it seems SE kinda marginalizes the job, much like most of the playerbase, because it is "good enough".

Good enough for everyone is not good enough for me, end of story. I am very glad you love your MNK, I am even more glad you play it as much as you do in free time. I am not glad that you are not in agreement that MNK could use some love from the Devs, let's just leave it at that.