Do you think Hand-to-hand weapons should allow Grips?

[Shinryuu]

I supported the whole mentality of MNK can destroy everything better than anyone when well buffed until my WAR capped GAX and gained Hasso. I do wholehartedly agree with the Nyzul statement though, and MNK is still more than fine in merits.

[VZX]

MNK - no. Speaking as if capped gear haste and 300 base delay for double D51 weapon is not strong enough.
PUP - yes

[pchan]

Considering what they gave to BLM (INT+1 being the most useful grip) it would be something like VIT+1, HP+10,STR+1 or other useless crap. I'm more interested in giving PUP some grip with pet : stuff though .. Oh wait, animators should be in the "sub" slot so that we can equip back tathlum/tiphia sting..

[miokomioko]

Or just allow something besides oil to be equipped next to the Animator. Why the shit does PUP have throwing skill?

[Pikarya]

Or just allow something besides oil to be equipped next to the Animator. Why the shit does PUP have throwing skill?

The real question is. Why can PUP use Hope Staff?

edit: inb4 av

[Greatguardian]

Same reason they can wear Seer's Tunic set. SE forgot Pup wasn't a mage.

[Kimkytaru]

Ignored? more like shunned, what events are you speaking of mainly because from what i can see salvage is about the only thing people mainly want mnk for, all other events, the other DDs are more wanted, even when i do nyzul runs, i'm often asked do i have sam when i join the PT as mnk. sure there are zerg battles, but again, if you have war or sam, they will ask for those 1st.

Never had a sam that beats me in a zerg situation.

Also what event you can go on mnk ? Baha v2, KV, Salvage, Nyzul, Einherjar (except odin), Assault, Dynamis, sky trigger and sea. As for people asking oyu to come on sam or war first then mnk, then your leader sucks and should learn more about other jobs. I can understand why he want a sam over you on sky gods, DI, Odin, and a couple other stuff because honestly mnk perform terribly against those (I'm glad my ls let me tried them at least now I know I wont go again on mnk on those).

Like every melee, we have place where we good and place were we arent.

As for do we need grip. Well our own custom grip maybe like martial arts enhancement or like someone suggested even 1 H2H skill. Rest I think we pretty good actually, maybe some ability to take dmg so we dont have to sub /nin everytime, that would be sweet.

[Shin Volcano]

Never had a sam that beats me in a zerg situation.

Also what event you can go on mnk ? Baha v2, KV, Salvage, Nyzul, Einherjar (except odin), Assault, Dynamis, sky trigger and sea. As for people asking oyu to come on sam or war first then mnk, then your leader sucks and should learn more about other jobs. I can understand why he want a sam over you on sky gods, DI, Odin, and a couple other stuff because honestly mnk perform terribly against those (I'm glad my ls let me tried them at least now I know I wont go again on mnk on those).

Like every melee, we have place where we good and place were we arent.

As for do we need grip. Well our own custom grip maybe like martial arts enhancement or like someone suggested even 1 H2H skill. Rest I think we pretty good actually, maybe some ability to take dmg so we dont have to sub /nin everytime, that would be sweet.

Baha v2 zerg, nyzul, salvage, dynamis (seldomly) and sky farming (not gods as your above stated reason, they have a hard time on gods) einherjar as well, and limbus, limbus shocks me because our shell leader isn't retarded and understands mnk and asks for it when dd is needed, but never anything like odin because the shells i was in never made it to him. this server has a one-set-mind mentaility when it comes to jobs,

I seriously have not had a merit PT invite as mnk for months because all people want are SAM and WAR it's really pissing me the hell off, even when i tried making pts that dosnt work either, (but i ussualy try during jp prime where you get ignored anyway) i don't know what it is about people and there SAM onry bs, but i'm proud of my mnk, i have to be rdm to get merit parties now, and when i am, same old shit, sam, war, war, war or sam sam ,war, brd etc, it's like only these 2 jobs are acceptable now, i don't even see MNKs in those PTs anymore, am i seriously missing somthing? or maybe people are just to biast here...

HNM and sky gods are understandable, everything else? no... well enough ranting.

With grips, an addedd effect bonus is probably what would work best, maybe en-paralyze/blind/stun some kind of enfeeble, we already have good delay as mnk, don't really see how you can make it lower.

Also h2h skill only goes to 299 max, would it be any huge diffrence if it went to 300? like...2 other A+ weapons already can do..

[ronin sparthos]

Yea i fully understand that, but it's the player base that does decide if i get to use mnk, i consider mine well geared, only thing it's missing is the last 3 usu peices to be caped, my only other melee are RNG and NIN and rng is only disired for WOTG HNMs but it's mostly a matter of i'd rather not argue or try to teach people that mnk isn't a weak job,

But my efforts go in vain, but i have all the major mage jobs aside brd, so that is partly why i don't get to use it much. but yea, it's always SAM SAM SAM etc, i can't do anything about what people are used and refuse to try, i remember when SCH got all there new toys, it took a stick of dynamite to convice my LS to let me use it over whm, it eventually worked, but my point is MNK is in that boat, i do wish they had a weapon for high defense mobs tho.

People will always default to SAM when they have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. If you leaders need a swift kick in the pants to understand that SAM is not the end-all DD job, show up on MNK and teach them.

MNK has its shortcomings but so does every other DD job (even SAM). Dare I say SAM has faults? This is the part where im supposed to burst into flames.

When I first started bringing BLU to Ixion people would ask why I didnt come SAM but it didnt matter, eventually they realized that BLU could be useful and came to accept it. All it takes really is a show of your skills and an understanding where jobs will shine.

Baha v2 zerg, nyzul, salvage, dynamis (seldomly) and sky farming (not gods as your above stated reason, they have a hard time on gods) einherjar as well, and limbus, limbus shocks me because our shell leader isn't retarded and understands mnk and asks for it when dd is needed, but never anything like odin because the shells i was in never made it to him. this server has a one-set-mind mentaility when it comes to jobs,

I seriously have not had a merit PT invite as mnk for months because all people want are SAM and WAR it's really pissing me the hell off, even when i tried making pts that dosnt work either, (but i ussualy try during jp prime where you get ignored anyway) i don't know what it is about people and there SAM onry bs, but i'm proud of my mnk, i have to be rdm to get merit parties now, and when i am, same old shit, sam, war, war, war or sam sam ,war, brd etc, it's like only these 2 jobs are acceptable now, i don't even see MNKs in those PTs anymore, am i seriously missing somthing? or maybe people are just to biast here...

HNM and sky gods are understandable, everything else? no... well enough ranting.

The only qualms people on Lakshmi seem to have with MNKs are the ones that sub /WAR because the JP usually tend to get real pissy when DD dont sub NIN.

Now usually id fault JP for stupid combos like SAM/NIN only or COR/WHM only but a MNK/WAR can really turn into a sponge if the other DD arent sharing the pain. It seems your server is really deep into the sheep mentality but I wonder if people forget any well geared job can maintain infinite chains. Thats right, you dont need 3 fucking SAMs/WARs to get good exp!

Oh well... thats why i stopped meriting ages ago and do Campaign when I need to get some because of the stupid bandwagon shit killing the game.

[Greatguardian]

It'd only bump Base H2H dmg up another tier =/. MNK not getting merit invites is a matter of people being idiots. Get an ls meripo if it's really that bad, you'd probably get fewer headaches and better exp/hr anyways.

Mnk's pretty shit-tacular on Odin, so is Blm, it's just not something you can reasonably do. My ls actually does bring at least 1 Mnk/War to sky gods a lot, but they tend to be the ones soaking up the most MP with 1k+ Howling Fists that aren't TA'd onto a tank. We have a player with 2 75's, but MNK main, who comes Mnk to every event. He's good at it, so it's never a problem. Hell, we joke about him being able to solo Dynamis because our Mnks are always the last ones standing and solo'ing shit when shit hits the fan.

And every DD in the game is going to sandy-vag if MNK gets 25% gear Haste, 348 delay D:53 weapons with 6% Crit on both AND en-stun...

[Hyan]

And every DD in the game is going to sandy-vag if MNK gets 25% gear Haste, 348 delay D:53 weapons with 6% Crit on both AND en-stun...

Wouldn't it be like 174 delay per fist? So D:53 174 delay weapon with +6% crit. Monk is teh weakest DD yo! Plz buff us SE (a +16% haste belt with +15 STR and -10% dmg taken will do!)

[Greatguardian]

(a +16% haste belt with +15 Acc and -10% dmg taken will do!)

Fixed <3

[Francisco]

(a +13% haste belt with +10 Counter, +15 Accuracy and Counterstance: -90% dmg taken will do!)

Fixed again, because with a 16% Haste Belt, there'd be 3% Wasted Haste on Full Usukane, which would likely make some sort of stupid mix/match setup better... and I don't want that to happen.

Also, I went ahead and took the liberty of breaking the game.

[Hiryo]

MNK has its shortcomings but so does every other DD job (even SAM).

Like every melee, we have place where we good and place were we arent.

I dont have any other of the DD's leveled, but what events do SAM WAR and DRG suck at?
Duo ENMs? They can all do it, and talking about level cap ones where you rely on your 2hr dont really count.
Nyzul/Assault/Salvage/lowman limbus? They can all do it with support.

I'm not saying you guys are wrong or anything. Just when I hear that "all the jobs excel somewhere and suck somewhere else" makes me ASSUME people REALLY mean "all the jobs we're talking about excel somewhere and other places the margin of effectiveness is widened and/or shortened (lol)"

[Yugl]

Or just allow something besides oil to be equipped next to the Animator. Why the shit does PUP have throwing skill?

So they can throw their Automation away and play MNK.

I dont have any other of the DD's leveled, but what events do SAM WAR and DRG suck at?
Duo ENMs? They can all do it, and talking about level cap ones where you rely on your 2hr dont really count.
Nyzul/Assault/Salvage/lowman limbus? They can all do it with support.

DRG aren't that great at big HNM events where WSs triumph over DoT. Aside from Angon, we have to rely on lolWheeling Thrust or Drakesbane (Which isn't that great against many HNM types).

[SubzeroDiabolos]

I know this is fail logic, but I think adding grip to H2H doesn't make sense only because they're not really 2 handed, they're 1 weapon to each hands, just like daggers. Daggers don't get grips, but I agree that you can choose 2 differents...

Oh well as I said fail logic but I still think that's what it is.

[Wolfknight]

DRG aren't that great at big HNM events where WSs triumph over DoT. Aside from Angon, we have to rely on lolWheeling Thrust or Drakesbane (Which isn't that great against many HNM types).

drg does alot better at HNM than ppl give it credit for[not khimera, cerb, or tiamat, or others where you don't melee at all] on sky gods, or fafnir it does same or better than most DD, though it can't really /thf well is main problem, if something for /thf personally I'd much rather blu or sam, drg w/angon though really adds large amount to everyone's dmg at stuff like JoL.

I seriously have not had a merit PT invite as mnk for months because all people want are SAM and WAR it's really pissing me the hell off, even when i tried making pts that dosnt work either, (but i ussualy try during jp prime where you get ignored anyway) i don't know what it is about people and there SAM onry bs, but i'm proud of my mnk, i have to be rdm to get merit parties now, and when i am, same old shit, sam, war, war, war or sam sam ,war, brd etc, it's like only these 2 jobs are acceptable now, i don't even see MNKs in those PTs anymore, am i seriously missing somthing? or maybe people are just to biast here

Personally since I pretty much only merit on my drg lately[rarely sam if mamool ja], the first DD I always want is either war or sam and the reason for that is a simply one, since I am not voking mobs off the bard, I want someone to and mnk can't really do that. I have no problem taking mnk as the 3rd/4th DD sometimes though but most mnks I've found can't really keep up at all w/me, I've seen maybe 2 in 10 ish that can.

[Hiryo]

drg does alot better at HNM than ppl give it credit for[not khimera, cerb, or tiamat, or others where you don't melee at all] on sky gods, or fafnir it does same or better than most DD, though it can't really /thf well is main problem, if something for /thf personally I'd much rather blu or sam, drg w/angon though really adds large amount to everyone's dmg at stuff like JoL.

which is superior to anything monk would be doing there in 2009

[Greatguardian]

All jobs have their niches, and areas where they play well/poorly.

Ie: DRG isn't very effective at solo'ing things that hit like a truck. However, they're great solo'ers for things where they can keep more healing than damage they take via Healing Breaths and ethereal/aresbody/drinks.

Mnk can solo things no matter how hard they hit, but have trouble with things that spam AoEs and/or hit very fast.

Sam can tank/solo near Mnk's level with a much larger gear requirement, but can't put out as much as a Mnk, War, or especially Drk in a zerg situation.

War can solo, no offense to anyone who's posted about it so far, but it can do so with much more difficulty than Mnk or sam. War has no native way to negate damage when /Dnc for healing. Sam has Seigan, Mnk has Counterstance as well as the ability to solo many things /Nin.

Sam/Thf excels at things you can't build TP on, but when you're given outside mobs (ie DI) where you can build TP, War/Thf, Mnk/Thf, and Drg/Thf can put up nice numbers as well.

Just a couple examples, since Hiryo asked. And the note about support, MNK can do a lot of those low-man things without support or with less support than most other jobs. That counts for a lot, especially when things hit the fan.

[byte]

I'm definitely for this. MNK needs the boost since they didn't benefit from 2 hander buff. More importantly though, I think THF needs some serious damage increase.

Sam can tank/solo near Mnk's level with a much larger gear requirement, but can't put out as much as a Mnk, War, or especially Drk in a zerg situation.

I wish this was true.

War can solo, no offense to anyone who's posted about it so far, but it can do so with much more difficulty than Mnk or sam. War has no native way to negate damage when /Dnc for healing. Sam has Seigan, Mnk has Counterstance as well as the ability to solo many things /Nin.

Couldn't agree more. And to add to this, DRG gets healing breath, DRK gets Drain/Aspir, Dread Spikes and Stun+W.Bash.
SE, give us Shield Mastery and/or something akin to Seigan Third Eye.. Pretty, pretty please?