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[FailureMidgard]

@pizza guy: my gear with pizza: FFXIGEAR.com

429 acc, not in including merits. thats 443~ acc.

Which is great if I'm meriting on mamool nin's all the time, but I'm not.



http://www.mattrocks.net/matt/ffxi/o...in%20merit.txt

Pizza is for unmerited jobs or 1h jobs in meripo.

HNM situation is different though.

And as Kilkenny said, without Pizza you aren't capped on any non-mages or Skoffin. Pizza will up your damage, sorry.

401 is enough to get ~90% acc on everything excluding nin/thf mamool.

dropping 5-6 str, and 50~ attack from bison steak or hedgehog pie which will effect your WS more.

Since the majority of my dmg is coming from WS, I want to try and maximise that damage as much as possible.

Medidtate and Zanshin both skew things in favour of meat, as meditate isnt reliant on Acc, and Zanshin can keep your TP gain normal even if you happen to miss.

with 90% acc, you'll miss 1 in ~10 hits. Zanshin base rate is 10% so you're going to have ~91% acc from zanshin.

I know it's not 95% Cap(~96% realisically for SAM), but it's as near as damn it, and the "lost damage" would most likely be made up for by weaponskills with more attack and 5-6 more STR.

The accuracy gain will give you more damage on WSes (via more WSes) than 15-20 str would. Oh yea, and you're talking about 5-6.

Also, if you're gonna count Zanshin in there, you sure as fuck better count Flash, Wind Wall, and Warm Up, because Pizza will give you more extra hits during those, hands down. So no, Zanshin won't skew shit in favor of meat. Meditate barely will, but really that 5-6 str is nothing compared to 5-6% hit rate.

Also, your weaponskills don't need more attack, or did you miss that memo? I'm sitting at 600 attack in most parties (because every other DD insists on getting DRK roll), when only ~450ish is needed to cap. Attack is a DoT only stat for sam.

Sorry, didnt see your prev page post, thread dinged before I saw it.

Pizza is acc overkill.
To get full worth out of it, you'd need to be 80% acc on everything.

swapping a little more acc in for one or two fights every so often is generally how I get round it. Also, saving meditate for the oppertune moments instead of spamming it every 2:30.

Meripo is about max xp. killing 0.4% faster because you're Acc is overkilled doesnt mean that the party is better.

For situaions where you need Killspeed (hnms etc) I agree with you, in that Pizza is a better option.

The thing is, you don't need full accuracy to make it better. If they lowered Pizza to 7% accuracy and left the attack the same, it would -still- be a better option. Sure, it sucks to "waste" accuracy (hence when you'd want to use Foragers/JTorque), but it is still better than the meat alternative.

Also, Meripo is about max XP. Not coincidentally, killing faster nets more EXP. I still don't know how you can justify saving meditate or saving TP. Do your parties lose chain on Skoffin? Do they only pull 1 Skoffin? Mine are pulling 3-4 Skoffin per spawn cycle. Also, where did you pull .4% out of your ass from? It's way more than that.

I'm sure Konda just means that faster EXP is great but losing chain due to waiting on respawns doesn't help any.

The -only- camp that is valid at is the MJ above birds. And ya, if we go there, it's all about pacing, and not maximizing damage. I'll wear full Usu there just for a little evasion to make it a tad easier on the mage, and lower my damage a bit.

At MJSP, unless you have a few Rukes, you're not gonna outclear the spawns, and I'm guessing Konda's parties pull 1 skoffin at most, since he "saves meditate" for it (which is really the worst idea I've heard in a long time). At Birds, any decent party can pull wivres constantly if needed (not that I'd ever use pizza at birds).

[mdkuser]

People generally think pizza is good just for one handed jobs, and sam get " so much " acc that they dont need it. Well for sure, for jobs like ninja and thief, pizza is so good, and the difference with met will be even better, due to the existence of Ninja chainmail ( 5% DW= 8% dmgg increase) and Rapparee harness ( 4% haste, same, about 7-8% dmg increase) while capping your acc and giving some attack.

[Marcicus]

(because every other DD insists on getting DRK roll)

Maybe I am looking too much into this little tidbit here, but if you're trying to imply here that you'd do better with any other rolls besides Chaos/Corsair's.. >_>

[Thorny]

Maybe I am looking too much into this little tidbit here, but if you're trying to imply here that you'd do better with any other rolls besides Chaos/Corsair's.. >_>

with sam sam [other dd] you would

[FailureMidgard]

Maybe I am looking too much into this little tidbit here, but if you're trying to imply here that you'd do better with any other rolls besides Chaos/Corsair's.. >_>

A well-geared sam should do better with fighter's instead of chaos.

Looking at a 7 on both, its 16% Attk vs 6% DA.

For a sam:
Double Attack: 6/117 = 5.1% increase in TP dmg, WS rate, and a little under that in WS dmg. Meaning it's roughly 8% increase in total damage
Attack ups TP dmg only; .16*.35 = 5.6% increase in total damage

[Marcicus]

I meant the party as a whole, sorry. :<

edit: Except in Thorny's case.

edit edit: Since we're on the topic here, why fighter's over samurai roll? I don't know the exact numbers behind each scenario so I can't say with confidence which is better.

[Konda]

I'm guessing Konda's parties pull 1 skoffin at most, since he "saves meditate" for it (which is really the worst idea I've heard in a long time). At Birds, any decent party can pull wivres constantly if needed (not that I'd ever use pizza at birds).

you guessed wrong.

And Skoffin have 414 Acc cap (higher level ones) so I'm still +90% cap. Wind wall is gonna fuck up any hit rate, no matter how much acc you're using.

I have very little need for merits anymore (sitting 430+) and most of the time I either pull on COR (Dart pulling is broken) or merit on a job that needs buffer.

I havent merited on SAM since I got my tomoe ~6-7months ago, and I havent merited with GKT SAM, at MJSP in at least a year.

I dont know where the whole merit party situation even arose from, and at which point 85-90% accuracy became "unacceptable", but Meripo is pretty much the last situation I use my SAM.

Pizza is viable for me at dyna xarc or something, since thats about the only situaion what I can think of where I'd use sam w/o capped Acc. Meripo, doesnt come into it.


edit: forgot bolded bit... why not, since it's obviously the best?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Not that I don't like you, Konda, but you're being a massive douche, and pretty much turning a deft ear to evidence to the contrary of.. pretty much everything you're saying.

[Konda]

Not that I don't like you, Konda, but you're being a massive douche, and pretty much turning a deft ear to evidence to the contrary of.. pretty much everything you're saying.

I most likely am, but I really dont see the whole pizza thing in meripo

Not to mention I'm a little sour that after spending so much gil on haub+1 and cuch mantle etc, i could have just used sushi and "been at Acc cap and pwnt more".

Pretty sure the goal for meripo builds was to get enough Acc to support your haste and meat with ~90% or more hitrate.

When did all this change? and would you use sushi on a decently equipped, fully merited 2hander job if pizza didnt exist?

[Killkenny]

At the risk of not having learned anything from the salvage bans, please fuck off back to KI or Alla.

The goal of merit builds was never to support meat with 90% accuracy or some other threshold. It was to get the best output on a given group of targets, back before we had a lot of the info we do now people were more guilty of eyeballing, and the rest of us were guilty of taking it as red and accepting it.

I'm sure your cuch mantle and Haub +1 will still be of use outside of merits (apparently where you find yourself on sam the most anyway) but get over the fact that pizza has changed things and there is no point making hypothetical scenarios where it doesn't, because it does.

[FailureMidgard]

I meant the party as a whole, sorry. :<

edit: Except in Thorny's case.

edit edit: Since we're on the topic here, why fighter's over samurai roll? I don't know the exact numbers behind each scenario so I can't say with confidence which is better.

Long story kinda.
I'm currently sitting at 48 stp on TP, and 41 on WS.
With a 7 roll, that puts me at 74/67, which is 80+19.2=99.2 TP.
So, in order to end up having Sam roll matter, the cor needs to roll a 2, 8, 9, 10, 11. Which, is decent odds if the cor realizes all those work, and a 7 does absolutely nothing for me unless I switch my gear (Haub+1 to Usu body), but really, paying attention to the corsair's roll values isn't something I want to do while meriting, personally. Furthermore, some COR will sit on a 7, or doubleup on an 8, or waste snakeeye on a 10. I don't really want to try to explain their job to them.
Also, everyone is going to be in a different boat on how much stp they need. I personally need those #s I listed, but it's entirely possible someone else only needs a 7 (no clue what job would/etc) or actually needs a 9, etc. Store TP is just a really picky thing, and adding more isn't always better.

That being said, if I have a party of people that also only need 2/8/9/10/11 and the cor understands that an 8 is the exact same as an 11 to us pretty much, then sure, sam roll will beat out fighters. Fighter is just simpler, and still beats out chaos.

you guessed wrong.

And Skoffin have 414 Acc cap (higher level ones) so I'm still +90% cap. Wind wall is gonna fuck up any hit rate, no matter how much acc you're using.

I have very little need for merits anymore (sitting 430+) and most of the time I either pull on COR (Dart pulling is broken) or merit on a job that needs buffer.

I havent merited on SAM since I got my tomoe ~6-7months ago, and I havent merited with GKT SAM, at MJSP in at least a year.

I dont know where the whole merit party situation even arose from, and at which point 85-90% accuracy became "unacceptable", but Meripo is pretty much the last situation I use my SAM.

Pizza is viable for me at dyna xarc or something, since thats about the only situaion what I can think of where I'd use sam w/o capped Acc. Meripo, doesnt come into it.


edit: forgot bolded bit... why not, since it's obviously the best?

1. JUST BECAUSE WINDWALL FUCKS UP ANY HIT RATE DOESNT MEAN A 60% HITRATE IS NOT BETTER THAN A 50% HITRATE. Holy fuck dude. If you swing 10 times at windwall/flash/warmup (which will happen in less than 15minutes really), then 10% hit rate gave you 1 more hit. Period. End of story. It doesn't matter how low it is, in fact, the LOWER IT IS, the bigger percentage impact the accuracy has on your damage. Get a grip on reality. This is a bigger increase in your damage than Zanshin will ever be. And also, again, I AM NOT SAYING TO EAT PIZZA FOR THIS, I AM SAYING IT IS AN ADDED BENEFIT THAT IS FAR LARGER THAN ZANSHIN (which can still miss) on uncapped accuracy (lol).

2. Why don't I use pizza at birds? Really? Becase if I did decide to delete all my gear so I had 80 free satchel spots, then maybe I could keep food on for a whole hour while losing 250k gil? Ya, no thanks, I'm more than willing to drop 7-8 stacks of sushi or meat (sushi for pole in a good party that doesn't need madrigal), but ya, Pizza is ridiculous. The only thing more ridiculous is the fact you actually asked about it.

And I find it nearly impossible to believe that someone in a party that is pulling 3-4 Skoffin's per cycle can be stupid enough to think you should save meditate.

[Konda]

At which point did I say I saved meditate for skoffins?

I said I held med when I knew the lurker was coming (every other meditate, since ~5min repop and stuff) because their evasion is so much higher than the other mamools. Saving meditate for 20 to 30 seconds to keep the chain going through a lurker is a bad thing?
I already explained the benefits of this as you dont need to depend on your shakey accuracy for them (pizza or no pizza).


And grats, you found the caps key.

[Hyriu]

Pictures please (´･ω･｀) ?

[FailureMidgard]

I most likely am, but I really dont see the whole pizza thing in meripo

Not to mention I'm a little sour that after spending so much gil on haub+1 and cuch mantle etc, i could have just used sushi and "been at Acc cap and pwnt more".

Pretty sure the goal for meripo builds was to get enough Acc to support your haste and meat with ~90% or more hitrate.

When did all this change? and would you use sushi on a decently equipped, fully merited 2hander job if pizza didnt exist?

Well, for 1, it all changed when Pizza was added to the game, which gives less accuracy than the decent sushi, and still gives you some attack. Also, the debate has been about Pizza, not sushi.

For 2, people realized that attack does nothing for Y/G/K semi-recently (I use this term vaguely), so all meat/etc is doing is upping your DoT damage (and woohoo for 5 str on WS that everyone loves to bring up). IF you are capped (note, that says capped, not 90%) accuracy and have haste in every possible slot (WTurban included), then meat may beat out a pizza. But as others have said, at that point, you may as well switch to a pizza, switch to JTorque/Foragers/etc, and stay capped, and likely get more attack out of it.

As to your last question, that is actually pretty close, and it comes down to what buffs you have/etc. A sam still needs attack from 1 place (and berserk is unreliable with only 70% uptime with that+warcry), so if you're not getting a minuet, you want to eat meat almost for sure. But sushi is still underrated by many 2h DD that are sitting at the accuracy that you have. It isn't a clear cut thing like pizza, but it isn't a bad option either.

At which point did I say I saved meditate for skoffins?

I said I held med when I knew the lurker was coming (every other meditate, since ~5min repop and stuff) because their evasion is so much higher than the other mamools. Saving meditate for 20 to 30 seconds to keep the chain going through a lurker is a bad thing?
I already explained the benefits of this as you dont need to depend on your shakey accuracy for them (pizza or no pizza).


And grats, you found the caps key.

My bad on that, it's still "stupid" to save meditate for Lurkers. I say "stupid" in quotations because at the camp above birds, can really keep chain forever and never use meditate once. And no, the fact that you need meditate to keep chain on a Lurker is a bad thing. It shouldn't even be close.

And I figured maybe if I used caps, you'd actually stop responding with the same bullshit, after people have told you said things like 5 times. I'm probably wrong, you still won't read it, and will once again use the same response.

[Konda]

Fair enough, I'll give pizza a try next time I merit on SAM.

I'd post another Job's equipment now, but I think I better wait a day or two for this shitstorm to die down a bit.

[Gunitsoldier]

Gee, always a blast when these debates occur, boy o boy!

[Tsuko_Asura]

With rage, comes information.

[Thorny]

may as well just post, people don't forget these things

now, where's avarice and his not-blitz ring or maacha and her enm+ for TH pants?

[Tsuko_Asura]

"Why don't you go piss your pants again"

"That was in the second grade, ass"

"People don't forget!"

[Thorny]

hey tsuko

i love you