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[antihero]

lol

[Aurara]

you're bragging about a 1.9k namas on a sea puk? lol....

[PeaceNLove]

you're bragging about a 1.9k namas on a sea puk? lol....

Wow, have you been keeping up or did you even read the quoted portion of Drace's post?

[Aurara]

i read it, but i dont really see anything impressive. puks are weak to piercing, so its not a shock that it would do 1.9k
Edit: i assumed he meant 1.9k on a mamool, my apologies if i misunderstood

[Mythe_Seraph]

Wow, have you been keeping up or did you even read the quoted portion of Drace's post?

This. Again.

The previous argument was, I believe, that numbers that high wouldn't be produced at mamool ja, and that they were at bird camp. These chat logs seem to prove otherwise. The rest is just a continuation of the whole argument in general.

[Wolfknight]

This. Again.

The previous argument was, I believe, that numbers that high wouldn't be produced at mamool ja, and that they were at bird camp. These chat logs seem to prove otherwise. The rest is just a continuation of the whole argument in general.

yea but drace's figure was mineut or chaos only, I would assume that ws was zerk'd, and probably chaos + mineut.

[Killkenny]

1. The support buffs from BRD were actually March/Minuet < > March/Madrigal as oppose to what I stated earlier. (Still not relevant to the issue I think)

Buffs are extremely relevant, how could they not be? Rana is a multi hit WS which relies on melee acc while Namas relies on Ranged accuracy.

2. You will notice that there was a gap of incoming data at 1:23:59 after Draken took 939 points of damage from a Fang Rush, also around the last time that Namas appears in the lines. Data starts coming in again at 1:34:56 this was when Draken came back as WAR, it then lasted for 4 fights/approx 1 minutes, last line at 1:35:55. It didn’t stop right when he left to change as I thought. So the parse was compromised by 4 kills out of 196 kills. If you find this significant enough to affect the important overall averages, then that’s your view. I personally don’t think it detracts much from the point.

The WS average in your parse is roughly 300 points above what draken said you could achieve from perfect gear for namas, this does seem some significant oddly enough.

The relevant facts that I exhibited the parse to establish were the following:

1.That a 40D weapon such as Soboro will hit on average for about 94 damage in comparison to an 83D weapon such as Onimaru with an average of 162. The difference being approximately 68 damage/hit under the circumstances.

•The inference that I’m establishing with this fact in relation to the issue, is that if Onimaru can maintain such a considerably higher melee average, the gap will be even higher with Amano obviously. (No contention here?)

2.The number of times that the Soboro will attack more than a normal GKT, due to its special property is not going to be double all of a sudden under the circumstance and where hastes are ~equal. (Occasionally =/= Always). 965 Soboro to 738 GKT in this parse.

•Inference: The Amano actually has a little bit of a lower delay than standard GKTs, so this gap is made closer.

Again feels like we've gone back to your pulling figures out your ass point which again just makes you look stupid ([please be aware of the fact amano has 13 less delay than soboro yet you haven't even done the basic maths to show how this will affect melee/WS totals).

Additionally, in practice not every extra swing that the Soboro has over a standard GKT will translate into additional weaponskills. The reason for this should be obvious. (EX, Soboro is 1 swing away from 100TP, Soboro attacks 2-3 times, the TP gained from the additional 1-2 attack obviously won’t be contributing to the TP needed for the next WS)

Yet again this is really basic maths which you haven't even looked into yet it seems like an attractive point to bring up.

So, the weapon skill frequency of the Soboro probably won’t be so extreme as to completely over take that of the GKT (Amano in this case) not as much as the Amano’s melee damage will have overtaken the Soboro’s melee damage. (This is what you’re contending)

Wow did you really formulate this all by yourself, once again you provide no WS or melee averages with which to compare it to so this means less than nothing.

The support job used is irrelevant to the inferences made (both weapons can use the same sub without the need to go into a discussion of /war v. /drg)

Yet again you are wrong, SJs effect different WS greatly (look at YGK vs every WS without an attack bonus). Namas is a relatively unexplored weaponskill (especially as sam) and the numbers it can achieve under different amounts of support are not yet well documented and nothing we have seen yet could be taken as an average.

The use of fighter’s roll is also irrelevant to the inferences. Unless it’s being suggested that having a higher DA rate across the DDs somehow reduces the number of swings that soboro can enjoy? The only issue that I see with fighter’s roll is that it’ll inflate the GKT’s WS while the Bow gets nothing in that regard. (This is irrelevant to the point, just don’t use COR in the actual measure between the amano and the yoichi)

I see a trend developing here. How could a weapon that already averages 2 attack rounds benefit from a trait that induces 2 attack rounds as much as a weapon that average 1 attack round. Then you also need to consider the fact that double attack can affect Kaiten and not Namas (not that you would ever select chaos/corsairs outside of a 'good' merit party).

Is this one presentation some definitive and absolute proof of the proposition? No, I never insinuated that it was. However, the inferences made are certainly reasonable under the circumstances. Some other, presumably reasonable individuals with experiences concerning the issue have made the same proposition to KillKenny, your partner in this farce, as he mentioned previously.

Nobody every insinuated that drace's parse was absolute proof, he provided context to his parse which is FAR more than you did and then went on to explain how and why yoichi sam would parse higher. The experience NA/EU players have with yoichi sam is clearly at a minimum as we are limiting valid referees to Draken who is now banned and Drace who from what I gather is trying to remain unbiased. I am in noway his "partner in farce" as I am trying to debate whether or not upgrading this weapon would be worth it (it would be much easier if it wasn't) and from the posts and PMs I have recieved from Drace it seems it is.

No doubt I’m wasting my time. If you have/manage to get any relevant evidence to support what you’re claiming I’m sure you wouldn’t mind sharing, you haven’t done that in all the responses you have made on the subject. And if your evidence can preponderate so much the better.

We told you posts ago that we were wasting our time with you. You posted a parse in which you lied heavily about the context and all you backed it up with is your innane bullshit and absolutely no figures. Why would drace say the the WS avergae should have been substaintially lower if he was trying to advocate the superiorty of the weapon in general.

[PeaceNLove]

yea but drace's figure was mineut or chaos only, I would assume that ws was zerk'd, and probably chaos + mineut.

Nope:

Namas will not hit 1900 with Soul Voice Minuets and the top Chaos roll on a Puk with Dia 3 and any other debuff you would like to pull out of your ass.

Was everything there and more, even specified puk as the mob. Serious lack of actual reading going on here =[

[Wolfknight]

Nope:

Originally Posted by Drace
Namas will not hit 1900 with Soul Voice Minuets and the top Chaos roll on a Puk with Dia 3 and any other debuff you would like to pull out of your ass.

Was everything there and more, even specified puk as the mob. Serious lack of actual reading going on here =[

One problem this sam was SUB war meaning he had zerk which is not accounted there, zerk + 2x mineut and chaos is very different from it w/o zerk when talking relic ws.

[PeaceNLove]

Soul voice and the top Chaos roll would more than account for that.

[Wolfknight]

Soul voice and the top Chaos roll would more than account for that.

SV would add 90 att or so, zerk adds 150+ and chaos would account for the rest if had relic hat proc or drk in pt.

[Drace]

Ok, the information in your single parse has now changed half a dozen or more times. Yes fighter's roll will heavily favor you and the war, while not at all the Soboro Yoichi SAM. Yes minuet will (obviously) have a difference on the ws averages - you can look back at what I said about Namas average in the previous posts, with 2 buffs at MMJSP I said it would top 1k+, this is for /DRG.

I will absolutely eat face about the 1900+ Namas - as I could see from the chat log, with lucky chaos roll, red curry, berserk, dia, and minuet, he was able to get that on a Puk. I have not topped 1800 on Namas in meripo, but I only sub DRG.

And here is the final reason (which goes back to the very first post I made in this entire inane argument). You are trying to judge the potential of Soboro Yoichi SAM off of one person, who when I measure it up against my results, goes back to my first post about effectiveness of relic weapon users.

Here are some results from 5 various Amano parses, and 8 various Yoichi parses regarding weapon skill spread. The other members in each of these can range from cookie cutter to top of the line decked out WAR's etc. The point in these is to notice the amount of weaponskills I achieve over players on average with Amano and how many on average I achieve with Yoichi. At the right of each parse is the multiplier of my total WS's vs the next highest WS total in the party. Given that I am posting 13 different examples, to your 1 should dictate that my results are 13 times more conclusive than yours. When in reality, either of us could put up 200 parses, and it would amount to jack and shit when actually trying to understand the differences between the potential of an Amano SAM and a Namas SAM. Your conclusion is that based on some parses with Draken, you remember other Amano SAMs and Bravura WARs being further ahead in completely different parses... not even in the same party at the same time... My conclusions are based on 1 year + experience with using Amano, and several months of using Yoichi.

Namas WS Spread
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...amasMerit1.jpg

Kaiten WS Spread
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...enWSSpread.jpg

And yet somehow, in your pty, Draken's multiplier was only 1.19 - I would have to be asleep at the wheel on Amano SAM to get numbers that low, comparing it to my Yoichi build is nothing short of laughable. That is an impressively shitty performance, and I'll let this rest with my quote from the very first post I made in this idiotic BS:

point being, Relic Player A could be 30% less effective than Relic Player B.

Edit: And just for reference, this is my Namas build in case you want to try to compare with your memory of Draken's etc.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...amasMain-1.png

[D44kpunk]

Drace have you always been on alexander? There are no good other players to parse against on alexander.

[Drace]

Drace have you always been on alexander? There are no good other players to parse against on alexander.

This is partially accurate (sad but true), and yes I have always been on Alexander since the first week of PC release.

That being said, I have parsed against half a dozen decked out Apoc DRK's, a couple of Bravura WAR's, other Amano user (RIP Cses), other Yoichi user, etc. And while I would agree that the amount of top of the line decked out players are few and far between, the parses I have up there have a few of them, and I very much enjoy xp'ing with them.

[Klien]

daak<3

Drace come to LTC<3

[Francisco]

I'd fuck all your shit up.

[Drace]

daak<3

Drace come to LTC<3

Working on it

/nod Cisco

[jimbobsonofgod]

Finally able to force-proc my ring ^-^
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../Brdlatent.png
First is HP down, 2nd Idle, 3rd FastCast (start of every song).
The Genbu/Seiryu is to push HP up because I can't seem to sit in my idle set in yellow hp ; ; Have about 60ish HP to regen back befor white HP.

If you are going to be pushing for yellow HP why bother idling and casting in an HP regen peice ?

[noodles355]

So I'm less likely to die in the 1-2mins between recasting.
Orochi is only in the third slot because it was in the idle set and FC didn't swap anything into the neck. Changed that though, now uses wind torque (Purely to macro out Morgana or Orochi).

One thing is idle set is pretty low on HP, you think it's worth losing serket for maybe jelly? (Not worried about +magic damage, I have a make shift fire/mdt set for Tia anyway. Although it's only Water Staff/Suzaku/2 Mermans and MP in other slots where had phys dmg-)

[Alafiel]

I only got mages job so everytime I check this thread I hope to find interesting WHM or BRD with some stuff i missed. Looking at your BRD makes me die, please delevel it.