Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn

[Gunitsoldier]

Is this irony at its best? An arab saying the holocaust was no big deal?

[BRP]

Is this irony at its best? An arab saying the holocaust was no big deal?

How is that irony? What did you expect?

[Mizango]

Islam vs Christianity? Each person respectively thinking the other is retarded? Quick! Someone flash the Jones signal, epic lulz are sure to ensue shortly thereafter.





Edit: inb4 we don't have homosexuals over here.

[Neosutra]

Im still waiting for which facts the Quran revealed about the universe that science didnt discovery till later.

[Max™]

How did the quote go?

"You must think facts means 'shit you made up', huh?"

[Mizango]

Basically.

[kareface]

Lol, did the admin actually edit out the rape quote, but keep the holocaust one?

[Mansin]

Is Firas trolling?

[kareface]

Is Firas trolling?

No, I don't think so. Maybe about the holocaust thing, but I doubt it.

[Mizango]

Is Firas trolling?

Nope.

[Faris]

Im still waiting for which facts the Quran revealed about the universe that science didnt discovery till later.

oh wow, so you didn't see the video i posted.

it very much so explains some of those discoveries with reference.
but just because you're a full-of-rage kinda guy, i'm going to post other ones.

I'm not coming up with shit from my ass, im simply referring.

I dont think I make my religion look bad, its the media thats run by people like you; who make my religion look bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=temQ6bd3Cuk
i know you're not interested, you're not going to watch this video or the next one; you just want to argue, and show your muscles by insulting other beliefs. But i'm gonna do my part in posting it.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

i hate you all lol

[Heian]

oh wow, so you didn't see the video i posted.

it very much so explains some of those discoveries with reference.
but just because you're a full-of-rage kinda guy, i'm going to post other ones.

I'm not coming up with shit from my ass, im simply referring.

I dont think "people like me" make my religion look bad, its medias like yours that do that are controlled by people like you who make my religion look bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=temQ6bd3Cuk
i know you're not interested, you're not going to watch this video or the next one; you just want to argue, and show your muscles by insulting other beliefs. But i'm gonna do my part in posting it.

I have said before fundamentalists/extremists are the same in any religion. Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Hindi/etc it does not matter. They distort the words and meanings to use as a form of control over people who do not have an opportunity to learn anything else. If people had the opportunity to learn from other cultures freely I think that would solve many problems we face in the world today. To afford people the chance to see that people who believe different things are really not that different from them, that they just want to raise the next generation the best way possible.

[Max™]

If people had the opportunity to learn from other cultures freely I think that would solve many problems we face in the world today.

Shame no one ever invented some sort of means to link up computers all around the world over phone lines and such... or that if they did in invent such a thing it would just become clogged up with porn.

[Max™]

wtfdoubleposted

[Neosutra]

oh wow, so you didn't see the video i posted.

it very much so explains some of those discoveries with reference.
but just because you're a full-of-rage kinda guy, i'm going to post other ones.

I'm not coming up with shit from my ass, im simply referring.

I dont think I make my religion look bad, its the media thats run by people like you; who make my religion look bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=temQ6bd3Cuk
i know you're not interested, you're not going to watch this video or the next one; you just want to argue, and show your muscles by insulting other beliefs. But i'm gonna do my part in posting it.

First: Im not just insulting your beliefs. Im an equal opportunity asshole. And no, your religion isnt anymore special than christianity or the any other new cult that sproats up this week.

No, none of the references you are claiming can be even REMOTELY considered to be "scientific facts" prophesized by the Quran that are later discovered. Not only are you reaching, and reaching hard, you are hurting your own case by laughing at christianity for doing the same thing.

Its like the dorky guy at the club making fun of the other dorky guy that is solo dancing in the corner. Neither of you are the cool independing guy that "gets" the music and understands the band. And yes, you are both going home alone.

And next time, reply with a specific "Scientific Fact" that YOU personally believe was predicted in the Quran and thus validates your beliefs in that dogma.

[Faris]

I PERSONALLY ME, believe in ALL the facts that was spoken about in the videos i posted <_>

[kareface]

I'm going to take the time to debunk the video.

First off, the "style" of the Quran offers nothing to support it as being the word of god. If that were the case one could say that god is a moron because, as I quoted earlier:

The Qur'an, on the other hand, reads more like a jumbled and confused collection of statements and ideas, many of which bear little relationship to preceding chapters and verses. Many scholars admit that the Qur'an is so haphazard in its make-up that it requires the utmost sense of duty for anyone to plough through it!

"He is the originator of the heavens and the earth." This information given in the Qur'an is in full agreement with finding of contemporary science.

False. No where in science is a creator suspected. It goes against the foundation of science. How does that sentence even represent the big bang?! That isn't anywhere near a "scientific" truth. Almost every religion says that their creator made the heavens and the earth, does that mean they all predicted the big bang as well? This is just moronic.

His description of the big bang is false. First off, it wasn't an "explosion", it was an inflation of space time. Second, it wasn't from nothing. It first requires a singularity in which the smallest unit allowed by quantum mechanics is created in the form of energy from a different quantum state, which is 1^3 plank length. If that energy come in the form of a Scalar field, it has the potential for inflation. As the field exponentially expands, it creates gravitational binding energy that corresponds to energy in the field. The actual "explosion" didn't occur until much after the creation of space time. No explosions were possible because matter was too hot and dense. It took about 350-450k years of continued inflation before energy started to cool enough to form partials. There was no light prior to this, because there were no fusion reactions that could occur, it was known as the dark age. After is where the real explosions came from. Once matter started to coalesce it gave off a great deal of energy, hence the cosmic microwave background radiation. None of which is accurately described in the Qur'an.

It's true that matter, energy and time as we know it didn't exist prior to the big bang, but that doesn't mean that nothing existed. Really, they are playing off of the fact that the people who watch this video know nothing about the topics they are describing to make their case. The irony of it all is the very expansion that they claim god is the source of will be the destruction of the entire universe as the temperature asymptotically approaches absolute zero. That very expansion that your god claims as his own creates an event horizon where galaxies and stars are being pulled out of our ability to ever see them again. Not only will we never see anything that has already crossed that threshold, but more of the stars we see in the sky will slowly disappear for the same reason. Thanks a ton, "allah", great handy work. Explain to me why we still need an expanding universe? If this was something that was designed, by an intelligent being, why is it we need to continue expanding?

(33) It is he who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along each in an orbit.

The moon does orbit, but scholars were well aware of this fact in the 8th century. They didn't know the true nature of the moon, but even a moron can tell it's rotating around the earth. However, the sun does not have an orbit unless you take into account the entire solar system orbiting the galaxy. Which wouldn't make sense because it wouldn't just be the sun, this is a false statement all together.

And the sun runs to it's resting place

What does that even convey? He talks about the sun orbiting the galaxy, but so does the moon and the earth. Why would the Qur'an only then mention the sun?

(7) By the sky full of paths and orbits.

This is just a joke. We've known about the shifting position of the stars for far longer then the Qur'an. The bible references ages which relate to astronomical periods, which long preceded the Qur'an. Even preceding that there is a great deal of work documented in regards to the moment of the stars in the sky. This is only a scientific truth because it was long known at the time. He makes a huge leap from that simple sentence to the assumptions he drew out. He talks about "perfect harmony", but if it wasn't for the chaos in the early proto-planetary nebula, we wouldn't even exist. So much chaos in fact that many of the materials found on earth were the result of impacts from objects in the outer rings. Not to ignore the moon, which was once part of earth, created from a much larger impact and is slowing the earths rotation and moving away from the earth. Those "orbiting" objects are also cause for issue when you consider even a small meteor can produce enough energy to sterilize the air on impact. But I guess god didn't want to include that caveat. This is isn't even prophetic, it's just sad.

Then he talks about how "galaxies orbit", this is just false. Most galaxies aren't orbiting anything. They are head in place by local gravitational fields, but most are expanding away from each other. It's rare at this stage of the universe to find galaxies merging with each other, even when they get near enough they don't Orbit. They are merging as the super massive black holes that create the massive pull required to keep them together slowly sallow each other. He pulls all of this asinine BS out of a single line: "By the sky full of paths and orbits." Which can easily be explained by just a generic description of something already widely assumed about the stars.

(32) We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from our Signs...

Yes, because every origins myth hasn't brought this up. Is it a scientific truth if every major religion that preceded it all said the same thing? The bible even talks about a shield of water in the sky. The Irony is they claim the sky was made for life, but the original atmosphere was toxic to life. There's a reason why the earliest forms of life are all water dwelling. It wasn't till long after bacteria chemically converted a huge portion of the atmosphere that even simply multicellular life even had a chance. Not even taking into account land animals.

(11) By heaven with it's Cyclical system

Yes, the same system that has created ice ages, killing most of the species on the planet is the work of god. How is this vague reference even expected to be believed to represent the atmosphere. You are looking for proof to support your case. The problem is that those passages not only have to be very specifically taken well out of context to convey the meaning he's trying to suggest. This isn't even taking into account all the blatant scientific falsehoods that are rot throughout the Qur'an.

It is he who created everything on the earth for you and then directed his attention up to the haven and arranged it into 7 regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things.

In two days he determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, it's own mandate.

He now uses the term heaven to reference the sky. It's funny how he used heaven to describe the Universe, the solar system and the sky. It's almost as if god didn't know the difference between the 3 distinct entities. The atmosphere wasn't created in 2 days and it didn't containe nearly as many layers as it does today when it was first being formed. If god created the earth with 7 atmospheric layers, why is it that even while life started to form in the seas, the atmosphere was still no where near the state that it's in today? Not to mention 2 of the "layers" he referenced are sub layers.

We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so that it would not move under them

This is literally the exact opposite of what they are. They are caused by the shaking of the earth, not the prevention of it. They would not exist if it was not for the impact of the tectonic plates, those impact can also be described as earthquakes. The irony being the areas where you find mountain ranges are almost always massive fault lines, the source of all earth quakes. There is no evidence that mountains prevent earthquakes. If this was the word of god, why on earth is it the exact opposite of the truth. The person in the video goes out of his way to try and turn this quote into some type of prophetic statement when it could be better referenced as proof of why the Qur'an is false. He outright lies for a huge portion of his description.

I'm not going to go any further. I'm about a 1/3 of the way through the video series and I haven't seen a single quote that wasn't vague enough to reference 100 other things at the same time. Not to mention the narrator has no problems knowingly spouting BS to prove his case. It doesn't even begin to address all of the falsehoods. How can you answer the following:

Another favorite of modern-day Muslims concerns the stages in the formation of the fetus (see suras 2:259; 22:5; 23:12-14; 40:67; 75:37-39; and 96:1-2). According to these suras the fetus passes through four stages, starting with the sperm which becomes the Alaqa. Though no-one seems to know what this word exactly means, many have tried, contending that it is anything from something which clings, to a clot, or an adhesion, an embryonic lump, and even chewed flesh etc... The Alaqa then becomes bones that are finally covered by the flesh (Rahman 1979:13). There are a number of difficulties with these suras, however. First of all there is no clotting stage during the formation of a fetus (Campbell 1989:185). Furthermore, the sperm does not become an "adhesion" or fertilized ovum without an unfertilized ovum. One needs the other. Secondly, "the thing which clings" does not stop clinging to become "chewed meat," but remains clinging for 8.5 months! And finally the skeleton is not formed before the flesh (or muscles), as the muscles and the cartilage precursors of the bones start forming simultaneously (Campbell 1989:188). In fact, according to Dr. T.W. Sadler Phd., the author of Langman's Medical Embryology, from a personal letter to Dr. Campbell in 1987, it has been proved that the muscles form several weeks before there are calcified bones, rather than arriving later as the Qur'an implies (Campbell 1989:188).


It is ironic to hear the above accounts cited as proof by modern day apologists of the Qur'ans inviobility, when in fact, once the truth be known it is the very science which they hope to harness for their cause which proves to be their undoing.

Why does god not know the different states of fetus development? Where in the Qur'an does it mention that we evolved from lesser species? That apes and chimps are our cousins? That Men share more genetic information with monkeys (99%) then women (98%). Does god mention any of that? Even scientific problems aside, the book is filled with major historical problems. Times and dates don't make sense, some stories are completely fabricated.

The problem is, the majority of the verifiable passages in the Qur'an have been tested to be false. The very few that are accurate historically are generally rot with other falsehoods. Even if the Qur'an had the exact blueprint for the world trade center contained with in it's pages, that doesn't make the reset of the content true. Even if I granted that Mohammad did hear the words of god for the sake of argument, it would be of little use seeing how no one decided to write it down until hundreds of years later. How much of that book would still be the word of god? How do you know that the majority of what you follow isn't something that was made up?

I PERSONALLY ME, believe in ALL the facts that was spoken about in the videos i posted

The problem is, they aren't facts, by definition they aren't even evidence. Those passages don't point to only one possible explanation. You have to admit that those passages could be taken to mean many other things. Just like you can find poems written from long ago that might make vague references to something that might resemble knowledge we have today. Think about Nostradamus, the Incas, Egyptians and countless other cultures. Each of them had small aspects of truth, or something that might come across as prophetic, but that doesn't validate their entire belief. If everything that was contained in the Qur'an was true, I would be more willing to use it at a source for facts. It, like most religious texts, contains a few truths that were known at the time and some beautiful attempts of explaining the unknown. However, it's clearly not the word of god. There are too many passages that are outright false. Many that can be misinterpreted. It's just not something that anyone should put faith in.

Also, I still want to know: Explain to me why we still need an expanding universe? Why does god not know the different states of fetal development? How do moutains prevent the shaking of the earth? Where does it talk about evolution? How do you know it's still the word of god after so much time had passed after it was originally 'taught' to Mohammad and passed between generations orally? How do you know that the majority of what you follow isn't something that was made up?

[Blarg]

I remember in one of the older versions of this thread I posted a bunch of quotes from the Quran and then firas said something like 'thats not the islam I know' Since the Quran is perfect I guess those quoted facts weren't the real facts that he seems to now believe in.

[kareface]

Here is what you really need to do Fira. The Qur'an speaks about knowledge and finding the truth. Why don't you take the time to find out if one of the most important beliefs you have right now, your religion and it's text, are accurate. I'm not talking about finding videos or websites from people who support Islam. I'm talking about finding real critics of the text as read what they have to say. Try and find fault with the text. If it was really the word of god, everything the the book should be true. Try and explain the many contradictions, falsehoods, inconsistencies of the 'word of god'. I think if you take the time and be critical of your belief, you might see some of the problems I've mentioned. If you were to ask my why I believe in evolution, I can give you 3 major proofs that only make sense under the light of evolution. I'm not talking about quotes that are being misrepresented, I'm talking facts, something that has been demonstrably proven true.