BLU HNM Nuking

[Chantal]

Simple question here, wondering how viable BLU nukes would be on HNMs. I'm not talking about Heat Breath, but more of Mind Blast/Eyes on me.

Also, does the 320/120 still apply for MND and CHR nukes? And in addition, both of these are demon type spells, would they get an accuracy/damage boost against dragon type monsters (i.e. wyrms)?

Thanks for the help, I don't know much about BLU so I'm just curious xD

[Valyana]

Mind Blast seems to work pretty well on Faf.

[Yugl]

Also, does the 320/120 still apply for MND and CHR nukes?

Can't even reach 320 on BLU Magic, so no one knows.

And in addition, both of these are demon type spells, would they get an accuracy/damage boost against dragon type monsters (i.e. wyrms)?

Yes.

Mind Blast/Eyes on Me can be impressive in limited situations (Mostly dealing with the Fafnir Wyrm type) and Double Dark Areas.

[Suiram]

A thought just occurred to me. I did Mind Blast once on Faf long ago when I first got BLU to 75 which was kind of fun but also felt pointless since I have BLM which is the same thing but better, and I don't really camp kings anymore, but it would be interesting to try Regurgitation.

It's water based so should help with lower resists, and it gets a damage boost from behind, and it has a fairly low recast, but most importantly it doesn't generate hate (or it generates like 1 CE or something). So you could feasibly stand on his tail and just spam it every 15 seconds or as MP permits, should be about the same damage as a T3 nuke from BLM, I think. Not sure how resists would be, though.

[Chantal]

I know that BLU can't hit 320 blue magic, but they can hit 320+ blue magic with macc gear. Requires nice stuff (morrigan's head/hands and such) but it seems feasible.

How substantial is the macc boost from having the advantage by family type?

[Suiram]

For BLU you need 333 skill/macc and 111 int/mnd/chr, not 320/120.

[Kaeko]

320/120 is for elemental nukes on like a set of 8 hnms. It may/likely would not apply to blu magic spells. Each spell has a different innate success rate. For instance, some spells have a base land rate very high (flash) while others are extremely low (1000 needles).

Also, Suiram, the thing about Regurg and the low hate sounds interesting... especially since it's already a useful move to begin with. Can you share any more experiences with this and the hate generation?

[Suiram]

When I first got regurgitation I was doing something with it (I don't remember what) and I noticed I didn't have any hate. So one day after salvage I went with a friend of mine to ebony puddings and I cast it repeatedly on a mob until it was about 20%? Then had my friend cure me for 50ish MP and they pulled hate. Meant to do a formal test but never got around to it, but experiences with it later supported this, like in salvage binding a fomor link, then getting hit by a bard song and the fomor goes after the BRD when it came unbound.


Also, at Chantel, I was joking about the 333/111 thing, the real answer is what Kaeko said, 320/120 is only a guide, and only for certain spells on certain mobs. You can't really apply it the same way (to the extent you can even apply it at all, I'm on record of not being a huge fan of it).

[Suiram]

Went and did a real test since you brought it up. BLM RDM BLU, Dark Bats in Movalpolis. BLM silence pull, BLU dispel, RDM dispel, BLU regurg 309 dmg, RDM cure (didn't wait for bind to wear) 0 hp. When unbound went for RDM. Regurg again, 309 dmg. When unbound, was on BLU. RDM cure 0 HP, back on RDM. RDM was naked, no enmity merits. BLU naked aside from +enmity gear to offset -enmity merits.

So yeah, 1 CE. VE would need a mob immune to bind to test on, due to the way target is selected while bound (retains old target unless someone walks into range).

[Sylvrdragon]

Incoming Emergency Maintenance.

[Suiram]

It's been like that since it was released, I've mentioned it in the BLU thread a few times, I really don't see why they did it that way, but at the same time they probably would have changed it by now if they were going to. It really is an awesome spell, not just for the low hate but also because the distance is really nice, the recast is low, the bind is pretty reliable, and it's only one set point. The only drawback is it's got somewhat high MP cost (69 MP) if you're just using it for the bind.

[Kaeko]

Went and did a real test since you brought it up. BLM RDM BLU, Dark Bats in Movalpolis. BLM silence pull, BLU dispel, RDM dispel, BLU regurg 309 dmg, RDM cure (didn't wait for bind to wear) 0 hp. When unbound went for RDM. Regurg again, 309 dmg. When unbound, was on BLU. RDM cure 0 HP, back on RDM. RDM was naked, no enmity merits. BLU naked aside from +enmity gear to offset -enmity merits.

So yeah, 1 CE. VE would need a mob immune to bind to test on, due to the way target is selected while bound (retains old target unless someone walks into range).

Awesome.

Also, the rough VE test (the way I do about 99% of the ones I personally test) shouldn't take very long for you to do. In this particular case, you need a Fire Elemental to do it on though.

A fire elemental in Sky would be the easiest target I can think of to get the 100% bind resist.

All you need is to even hate out, say by having each player dispel once, then the RDM cures for 0 HP twice (+2CE). Now the BLU uses Regurg (+1CE) and you use recast timers to see how many seconds tick off before hate reverts back from the BLU to RDM. Then you multiply seconds by 60 and you get a rough VE number. (I'm sure you knew how to do this but just restating anyways).

I'm actually really excited about this... Any form of damage that doesn't follow the damage dealt formula is interesting, but the ones floored at 1 CE are particularly "abuse prone". If you have a 1 CE attack (before this, the most relevant one I could give you was Bio III), you can easily spam it and never worry about hate in most situations due to never being able to reach high CE. Considering how much damage you can pull from Regurg (600+s) this is a big deal imo.

[Nevex]

I tried to nuke Lambton Worm using BLU's wind elemental spells (Mysterious Light, Flying Hip Press and Hecatomb Wave, latter two being breath spells) once and it didn't really work out well.

I don't remember my exact stats but I'm fairly certain it was 300 skill and quite large m.acc boost from Balrhan's/Omega rings, Morrigan hands, AF2 legs/cape and Denali feet.
I also have capped m.acc merits.
Resist rate was pretty high, well over 50%.

I have no idea if INT/MND/CHR affect magical spells' accuracy even though it might be likely.

Othe other side, certain blue magic spells are definitely more accurate than others. I.e. Frightful Roar easily lands on Dark Ixion without Wind/Auster Staff equipped, so I would think that spell has an innate m.acc boost like Flash and Dispel.

I occasionally toy around in town Dynamis zones as BLU/RDM nuking and it works decently, even though the short range on most spells is really annoying.

[Kaslo]

Also, Eyes on Me and Heat Breath are also useful on Fortitude but don't know how HNM you would consider it.

And for BLU nuking really there is no reason to /rdm if you can /blm or even /smn if you have uses to AA rotate.

BLU already has SS and Blink so no need for /rdm or /whm. /blm offers more MAB. For /smn you can set MAB with spells cheaply and more rounded on stats.

Also from testing, even at high stat difference, when MAB should be most effective, tests seem to show that 1MAB is about equal to 1 stat.

[eva00r]

Actually BLU can reach 320+ skills with "magic accuracy" gears, and I don't think we need that much magic accuracy on anything. M.acc effects both breath spells and nuke spells, plus BLU have loads of options to stack magic accuracy pieces in almost every slots.

However the damage of BLU spells come from stacking either INT, MND or CHR solely. Nuking Nidhogg with 150 MND Mind Blast is always guaranteed a hit and the best subjob for this is /RDM. Since Mind Blast cost is very low, you can spam Mind Blast every cool down and you won't pull any hate. MB with fully geared Mind Blast can reach 1100 or 1200 easily on Faf/Nidd/KS99. That result was a few years ago, I didn't have any Morrigan pieces back then.

Firespit is also interesting, I've nuked the LB Chariots with this for a lot of damage constantly with some 120-130 INT and 120-130 MND combined. Kiting the King Behemoth in Limbus with BLU/NIN and nuke the fuck out with Firespit is always fun, the very same gear works for ground KB also. This is only one of two BLU spells that have 21+ casting range.

I don't use Eyes on Me much since it has CHR mod, short range, high mp cost and dosn't give interesting numbers.

Regurgitation is fucking good, hell yea, 1 set point, 1 CE, 22 yrds casting range, possible to reach even 700 damage from behind, stick bind, 24 seconds cooldown time and only 5 seconds cast time.

Anyway, in my point of view, spell accuracy is not the problem when you are nuking with BLU. The real problem is to find a correct spell that can actually deal the best damage since BLU does not have access to any elemental magic you desire and if the monster is immune to that element or have fucking extremely high INT/MND/CHR against you, you're screwed. An easy example is HQ Turtle, you cant do shit with Fire or Water based spells and it has fucking high MND,CHR so you can't nuke it with Mind Blast or Eyes. The only option to deal magical damage to it is to switch over to Frost Breath setup, and that can produce damage constantly.

I somehow disagree with /BLM, /RDM is the way to go since BLU nuking spells has high downtime. -Fast Cast can reduce that- You don't need to produce "high" numbers, and even with spamming, you will never run out of MP anyway.

[Yugl]

Also, Diamondhide costs a truck of MP compared to normal stoneskin, which you can use your Mind Blast set up to max out (Maybe idk the cap).

[Innuendo]

If I've worked it out right you'd need 144 total MND to cap stoneskin with /rdm enhancing skill, which I guess is possible from reading eva00r's post.

[ClarkSammich]

This thread is great. One thing I would like to mention in regards to standing behind Faf ans spamming it is that Regurgitation has knock back, and I believe someone caused a flail w/ head butt knock back a long time ago?

Also here's a video displaying how wtf broken Regurgitation can be:
青ソロでScitalis 赤ソロ日記 [動画倉庫] - 動画共有サイトzoome

He's able to pull a few 900+ Regurgitation from the front with the use of convergence.
Anyway, post more. This is good stuff.

[Yugl]

This thread is great. One thing I would like to mention in regards to standing behind Faf ans spamming it is that Regurgitation has knock back, and I believe someone caused a flail w/ head butt knock back a long time ago?

Also here's a video displaying how wtf broken Regurgitation can be:
青ソロでScitalis 赤ソロ日記 [動画倉庫] - 動画共有サイトzoome

He's able to pull a few 900+ Regurgitation from the front with the use of convergence.
Anyway, post more. This is good stuff.

Were the other PT members participating in the battle? It seems they obtained hate mid-fight even though the BLU was the only one acting on the NM.

[Suiram]

This thread is great. One thing I would like to mention in regards to standing behind Faf ans spamming it is that Regurgitation has knock back, and I believe someone caused a flail w/ head butt knock back a long time ago?

I think the general consensus (and my personal belief) is there is no real knockback on any BLU spells (even when the corresponding mob WS has it), only an animation that looks like one--similar to how when a ghost Ectosmashes, it doesn't actually move. Until it's conclusively demonstrated otherwise, I'm just going to assume that if there was such a flail, it was caused by something else and misattributed to Head Butt.

The one concern I would have for flail would be the bind. I'm still not 100% certain how target selection is determined with a bound mob. I know that if nobody enters melee range, it retains the previous target until unbound. I know if one person enters melee range, they become the target (even if they subsequently move back out of range) until the mob is unbound. What I'm not sure about is target selection when there are multiple people in range. Is it just the person in range with the most hate? Is it the first person to move into range or the most recent person? Or is it the last person to perform an action on it? If it's "highest hate" then there's no issue, but if it's one of the others you could conceivably flail it in some really unlucky circumstance like bind procs, BLU is target, and he gets a WS off before unbinds or something.

If I had to guess, it probably is the highest-hate thing, but I'm just bringing this up so nobody blames me if they flail him!