Fix These Subjobs

[Gergall]

I had the idea for this thread while looking at and posting in the Bard Makeover thread. There are several jobs in the game that make terrible subs, or are too situational. This thread is intended for discussion of the worst offenders at level 75. The subs listed below may very well be decent at 1-20 (/MNK), or in 50-cap BCNM (/SMN), etc. Here are perhaps the worst offenders at level 75:

/MNK
/BRD
/PLD
/COR
/PUP

I never see MNK, BRD, or PLD subbed for anything. I have seen BRD/COR in salvage, and recently saw a post about /PUP as a gimmick for healing in an Ash Dragon solo fight. In general though these subs are just not very popular and could use some tweaking.

The tweaks don't have to come in the form of new low-level spells and job abilities. Look at what makes /DRG popular: sure the Jump, High Jump, Attack, and Accuracy are a nice side benefit, but the real reason people sub DRG is for a 5% haste earring. Other items could be added, or existing items adjusted, to turn crappy subjobs into viable options.

[Cream Soda]

If I'm not mistaken /brd used by rdm in manaburn for extra tic of refresh?

I go /pld to Tenzen fight in COP. It's the only way for me not to die tbh. Pop a sentinel before hundred fists and I live through the fight. Every other sub I've tried, I've died.

/mnk hmmm? breath build on blu?

[Aeowin]

RDMs who sub PLD to claim? Because obviously Dia and Poison aren't spells a RDM gets with a normal sub job.

[Faxanadu]

I never see MNK, BRD, or PLD subbed for anything.

Rdm's sub PLD for JoL Tanking (auto-refresh, Sentinal)

COR and various support role mages sub BRD (ballad)

ppl would sub mnk for bigger hp pool? i dunno, lol. Add bst to the list and let /drg get Wyverns.

[Antithesis]

Rdm's sub PLD for JoL Tanking (auto-refresh, Sentinal)

COR and various support role mages sub BRD (ballad)

ppl would sub mnk for bigger hp pool? i dunno, lol. Add bst to the list and let /drg get Wyverns.

Anything sub /BST is better than BST main most of the time. (If you BST is level 75 then he power of your charm is not calculated as the power of a level 37 BST but as of your main level 75 job.)

[Gergall]

I intended to put /SMN on the OP list as well. It has been replaced by /SCH at WHM 75 due to Light Arts, Sublimation, stratagems, and more.

I don't deny that some of these subs have some very narrow applications, I just think they could be improved.

/BST is fine as previously stated. /DRG is also fine thanks to the haste earring.

[Faxanadu]

what practical application makes use of /bst? Unless /bst can adaquetly charm Bv2 worms, i can't think of anthing.

[Gergall]

what practical application makes use of /bst? Unless /bst can adaquetly charm Bv2 worms, i can't think of anthing.

It can charm anything a 75 BST can charm, including Bv2 worms. You are missing Familiar, Snarl, and lots of +Charm gear and jug pets. However, your Charm is very reliable as long as your /BST sub is actually leveled to 75.

[Faxanadu]

It can charm anything a 75 BST can charm, including Bv2 worms. You are missing Familiar, Snarl, and lots of +Charm gear and jug pets. However, your Charm is very reliable as long as your /BST sub is actually leveled to 75.

Wow, i gotta call bull shit on that last sentence. Need some proof or some other ppl to confirms this. Makes no sense how your skills at lvl 75 can mean jack shit when its capped at lvl 37 on a subjob.

[Weeks]

NIN/PLD was pretty great before DNC, and is still useful on fights that need to be done pretty quickly (Eg, soloing WSNMs before you get repops).

Edit: Faxanadu, that's pretty well known. Makes no sense, but it's the way it works for some reason.

[Antithesis]

Wow, i gotta call bull shit on that last sentence. Need some proof or some other ppl to confirms this. Makes no sense how your skills at lvl 75 can mean jack shit when its capped at lvl 37 on a subjob.

Charm - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more

We are Square Enix, your logic has no worth to us.

[Faxanadu]

GOOD GOD..... /facepalm

[Meian]

/MNK
/BRD
/PLD
/COR
/PUP

I never see MNK, BRD, or PLD subbed for anything. I have seen BRD/COR in salvage, and recently saw a post about /PUP as a gimmick for healing in an Ash Dragon solo fight. In general though these subs are just not very popular and could use some tweaking.

The tweaks don't have to come in the form of new low-level spells and job abilities. Look at what makes /DRG popular: sure the Jump, High Jump, Attack, and Accuracy are a nice side benefit, but the real reason people sub DRG is for a 5% haste earring. Other items could be added, or existing items adjusted, to turn crappy subjobs into viable options.

/mnk for low level leveling on some jobs like DNC and THF with h2h (dagger is laughable until later). Also used by some DD like war, pup, etc since war as a sub for a while is also laughable unless you really want that Provoke (or /whm on some other ones that can use it well for basic cure in solo situations).

/BRD I don't know, I use to use it back during Ballista days for Lullaby but now I sometimes see it as a way to get a cheap Ballad or buff on a job (more so lower levels again)

/COR same as /BRD but can be better as I see them use rolls often in Qufim and such (Chaos I think don't remember).

/PUP I don't remember how this worked.

So yea, I don't think there is anything wrong with these subs unless you want them as popular as SCH/WAR/NIN etc. for some reason

Wow, i gotta call bull shit on that last sentence. Need some proof or some other ppl to confirms this. Makes no sense how your skills at lvl 75 can mean jack shit when its capped at lvl 37 on a subjob.

He is correct. You can charm well as a sub. Old old old news

[Deimos]

Wow, i gotta call bull shit on that last sentence. Need some proof or some other ppl to confirms this. Makes no sense how your skills at lvl 75 can mean jack shit when its capped at lvl 37 on a subjob.

It's definitely true. Confirmed by many, many people over the years. Charm length is quite short without access to BST AF/AF2, but the success rate is definitely similar.

It's almost certainly a programming bug (do a check using the player's BST level, forgot to account for it being subbed), but it's one that they haven't fixed.

[Freijah]

Why do useless subs need fixing? Not every single job combination has to work, does it?

[Faxanadu]

//COR same as /BRD but can be better as I see them use rolls often in Qufim and such (Chaos I think don't remember).

COR rolls are halved in power as a sub

[Esvedium]

I go rdm/pld frequently, especially when soloing. Shield mastery for no interrupts on blocks and extra TP, autorefresh, vorpal blade, shield bash, sentinel, flash, loldefensebonus.

[Knightfell]

Wow, i gotta call bull shit on that last sentence. Need some proof or some other ppl to confirms this. Makes no sense how your skills at lvl 75 can mean jack shit when its capped at lvl 37 on a subjob.

Aside from the above wiki link, ask any BST 75 friends.

Wonky yes, but it is true. I go sch/bst + FoV when pet camps are taken.

[SephYuyX]

I consider it a reward for getting BST to 75.

[Gergall]

Why do useless subs need fixing? Not every single job combination has to work, does it?

I think every sub should have some uses. In other words, there should be some reasonable uses for /PUP, /SMN, /MNK at level 75 somewhere in the game.

I'm not saying that all 380 job/subjob combos should be viable.