Fix These Subjobs

[BRP]

You guys shouldn't throw around the word fix. Fix implies doing things right(not introducing a power creep). That means nerfs.

Whether a job is subbed for melees depends on if can grant offensive support(Berserk, Dual Wield, Hasso) and defensive support(Utsu, Seigen - if only I could say Defender :/ ).

Why would anyone want to sub PUP or BRD? Even if they were viable, their premise goes against enhancing your job.

EDIT:

I consider it a reward for getting BST to 75.

SE should make a realllllly long and borrrrrrring quest that once you beat it you get to kill any monster you touch in one hit. Maybe it would take 5 consecutive years to complete, but the reward would be real nice.

[Seraph]

You guys shouldn't throw around the word fix. Fix implies cutting off something's balls.

ftfy

Seriously though, I'm not sure why anyone is hating on /PLD. You get Sentinel, Auto Refresh, Shield Mastery (where applicable), and Flash. Those are just the more impressive things, too. How is that so terrible, assuming you want a defensive type sub? Situational? Absolutely. Bad? Definitely not.

[Knightfell]

SE should make a realllllly long and borrrrrrring quest.. Maybe it would take 5 consecutive years to complete, but the reward would be real nice.

Thought they had a quest like that, called "The Rivalry" or getting Fishing to 100.

/snark

[Esvedium]

Thought they had a quest like that, called "Indomitable Spirit"

/snark

ftfy

[Gergall]

Why would anyone want to sub PUP or BRD? Even if they were viable, their premise goes against enhancing your job.

A viable /BRD would provide decent support to a party. Therefore, jobs like WHM and RDM might consider using it.

A viable /PUP sub would be more difficult. Maybe a full-strength puppet but with less attachments and overloads if you do more than 1 maneuver at a time.

[BRP]

A viable /BRD would provide decent support to a party. Therefore, jobs like WHM and RDM might consider using it.

What is the difference between a viable /BRD and the /BRD we have now. Is some other subjob giving out better songs?

[Vaxx]

/Mnk is good for drk zerging. As taru I prefer /Mnk over /Drg.

/Brd for weird merit situations, skillup/ws point parties (march), and for times you have to travel long distances (since raptor stacks with movement+).

/Pup for melee solo.

/Bst is great for 3 kings camping. Radar and instant claim ja with longer range than provoke.

[hypnotizd]

/Bst is great for 3 kings camping. Radar and instant claim ja with longer range than provoke.

I'm pretty sure Charm and Provoke are the same 17.0 distance.

[BRP]

/Pup for melee solo.

Nope

[Gergall]

What is the difference between a viable /BRD and the /BRD we have now. Is some other subjob giving out better songs?

Would you go WHM/BRD with the /BRD we have now?

Perhaps /BRD would be more viable if there was a generic (no bonuses) instrument available to all jobs, so that they can play 2 low-level songs instead of just 1.

[BRP]

Would you go WHM/BRD with the /BRD we have now?

Nope

[gamez]

/MNK - DRK HP stacking/Focus?
/PLD - isn't as horrible as it once was, having sentinel and auto-refresh as a subjob now is fun in campaign now, atleast I've seen it used.
/COR - we make the stand-aside melees in salvage on chariot/boss runs sub this sometimes, if theyre not going to be in melee range for the chariot, they can help out with monk's roll and such a little bit, I've seen THF's use it to keep TP down between Feint and such then stand back to save MP from AOE, with penance and whms it shows immensely for chariots without auto-regain.
/PUP - has served a mild functionality as a NIN sub for those silly soloing attempts, probably has other limited uses, straight tanking this is replaced by /DNC now as a better upkeep healer.
/BRD - I got almost nothing to try to rationale this one, instruments are a set-back.

I'm not saying these are great versatile uses, just trying to think of things they do get potential use from as is.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Any time shadows aren't all that important, /PLD is an excellent subjob for Red Mage tanking. Sarameya, Tyger, Dark Ixion, Gulfurfur the Menacing, etc.

[Max™]

Did War/Pld in Campaign for the hell of it while I was still in the 40~50 range on Pld and capping sword merits, Shield Mastery + Retaliation + Ethereal/Herc/Sigil refresh = neat.

Done War/Mnk for variety during sky farm days when the mages were bored and didn't mind dealing with me going full retard.

/Bst charm potency is the reward for leveling Bst to 75, I agree.

Charm doesn't seem to get hit as bad on claim delay coding for some reason, I got curious about it and went out to Zi'Tah to fuck with the RMT's before the bat blood nerf, I'd just chill out and keep an eye for repops loading with two macros, /ja "Provoke" <stnpc>x 6 and /ja "Charm" <stnpc> x 6. Spamming Voke as fast as I could always made me "dud" and have to try again, but Charm seemed to go off.

Darts > Charm anyways.

Why should every sub be as good as every other sub? Let's take the reasons for using certain subs away entirely, that'll be great!

[Rousseau]

I think /MNK would be useable if they just increased the counter rate a bit and made counter hits give TP.

[Gergall]

Why should every sub be as good as every other sub? Let's take the reasons for using certain subs away entirely, that'll be great!

That question is silly. Why should every main be as good as every other main? Let's take the reasons for using certain mains away entirely, that'll be great!


Anyway here is what I'm talking about: WHM used to choose between /BLM (Elemental Seal, Sleep, Conserve MP, Tractor, Blind, etc) and /SMN (Auto-Refresh, Max MP, MND, maybe Aerial Armor once in a while) and /RDM (Fast Cast, etc).
Now WHM almost exclusively goes /SCH. It would be cool if WHMs had to evaluate each situation to determine what they should sub. It would also be cool if even /BRD was a decent option.

I think it's fun/awesome when you have a few different viable subs and have to consider which one may be best for a given situation.

[BRP]

Why don't other jobs get rewards for hitting 75?

[Greatguardian]

Whms don't have to use /Sch.

They use it anyways because it's better.

Asking for all SJs to be useful everywhere (As it's already been stated that each of the OP'd SJs has situational uses, whether the OP has acknowledged it or not) is like asking for all main jobs to be useful everywhere. Kay, BST/BRD tanking AV go. They certainly have enough CHR to keep hate.

[Max™]

Ya know... that's actually a great idea, gimme Bergressor, Cure V, Haste, and native Ninjutsu on Pld.

[Gergall]

Asking for all SJs to be useful everywhere (As it's already been stated that each of the OP'd SJs has situational uses, whether the OP has acknowledged it or not) is like asking for all main jobs to be useful everywhere. Kay, BST/BRD tanking AV go. They certainly have enough CHR to keep hate.

I sure would feel silly if I was asking for all SJs to be useful everywhere. I'm not, though, so I don't feel silly at all.

I think it's a shame that some jobs like WHM are so heavily lopsided towards a single subjob, instead of having to choose between several subs with varying strengths and weaknesses like they used to.

More decisions and critical thinking is more fun than always doing the same thing, IMO.