Fix These Subjobs

[Greatguardian]

Whm can sub RDM if they need to gravity something.

Or BLM if they need to escape a party.

Or they could have other people with those set as Main jobs in the alliance, and use the Sub Job that offers them the biggest advantage at *what they're doing at the time*. Which is all anyone's been saying.

We don't /Brd on Whm because, as a main healer, 10% off cast time, spell cost, self-refresh stores, and the ability to halve spell cost at will is better than 1 extra tic of refresh AoE. If we were Rdm in a Blm party, yeah they could probably /Brd and do some good. Or they could put a COR with Relic Hat in there and get more overall refresh, plus MACC+ and/or MAB+.

Subs like these, like Club on Warrior, are playable enough in the right situations (Hi I need Blunt damage for Limbus War-onry). But we don't use them often because, frankly, we have better shit for what we're actually doing 99% of the time. We don't need to fill in these extra roles because there's a Main job class who can do it better.

[gamez]

/PLD also has another potential usage of triggering a Rune weapon in an area you can't get sanction or sigil refresh I suppose ontop of having sentinel available while you're in a situation where you'd be using a rune chopper for a ghetto zerg weapon, I don't think it's a great idea, I just think it's probably the best potential auto-refresh as a subjob natively.

[Midnightjade]

Would you go WHM/BRD with the /BRD we have now?

Perhaps /BRD would be more viable if there was a generic (no bonuses) instrument available to all jobs, so that they can play 2 low-level songs instead of just 1.

Ya, this would work pretty well, good idea.

Also, I can confirm that /BST works just the same as the main in terms of charm % success. My BRD/BST is actually safer in Sky than my BST main (Lullaby). And from 40-47 my WHM/BST has mischarmed a total of 4 times (and Stoneskin meant I took no damage each time). Plus it gets just as much XP:

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/t...g?t=1242778277

Both chains were as WHM/BST, admittedly on gobbies that tend to blow themselves up

[Katarzyna]

Now WHM almost exclusively goes /SCH. It would be cool if WHMs had to evaluate each situation to determine what they should sub.

No, shitty WHMs go exclusively /SCH. WHMs who actually give a shit about their job and know what they're doing will pick and choose which sub job to go as.

[Spider-Dan]

No, shitty WHMs go exclusively /SCH.

Given one unknown WHM/SCH and one unknown WHM/anythingelse, I will take betting odds that the WHM/SCH is the better player, every time.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Seconded. The number of lackluster White Mages who actually have Scholar available as a support job cut the odds pretty slim from the get-go.

[Tobatobu]

Would you go WHM/BRD with the /BRD we have now?

Perhaps /BRD would be more viable if there was a generic (no bonuses) instrument available to all jobs, so that they can play 2 low-level songs instead of just 1.

For a brief time, I was using WHM/BRD in Einherjar for added light based sleeps.. Then they released Repose and SCH. However, Lullaby still seems to land without much resistance.

[Valena]

Given one unknown WHM/SCH and one unknown WHM/anythingelse, I will take betting odds that the WHM/SCH is the better player, every time.

I believe it is due to the playstyle of the main job, and not the sub actually.

Look the differences of objectives between Rdm and Whm at 75 :
Rdm/Whm : Main healing duties, often in merit pt and on HNM where you know -na will be requiered.
Rdm/blm : crowd control, sleepga, dynamis shit
Rdm/drk stun stun stun stun stun stun stun (i'd like a gif of a rdm throwing hammer with a Stun word above it, if anybody ever see something like it)
Rdm/blu hi there turtle

Now, the Whm :
Whm/blm Cure cure cure cure cure
Whm/smn Cure cure cure cure cure ...
Whm/Sch Cure cure cure cure cure .......

Of course, there is situationnal shit where I'd potentially need Gravity, Escape, or whatever. But more often than not, changing the sub would equal loosing a lot of the firepower /sch adds as support. So in the end, it'd be better to let whichever job has access to those abilities actually handle them, and go Whm/sch

I'd really like some incensitive to go with other subs. I'm convinced for example Whm/drk could be golden as an occasionnal stunner in Dynamis. But unfortunately, Whm has got all the tools it needs as a main job, and the only functionnality of its sub, is to give back as much mp as possible.

[Pendas]

/PUP is probably the best SJ to use when leveling a job from 1-10. With the stoneskin, Flash and Provoke attachment I went from level 1-5 without taking a single point of damage for either me or the puppet. Other than that, idk...

[LarienTiwele]

Pup or /PUP has a small nishe in Limbus use when doing the Mimic floor in whatever zone that was - Release of puppet would de-aggro a mimic allowing you to save time and not kill any mimics that floor, that's about the only thing I remember for that sub.

/SMN is still also situational in limbus or other places where you can SMN pull with carby to avoid mass aggro.

[Psion]

Pup used to be a great sub for whm healing, and nin solo... but /sch and /dnc sorta took the wind out of its sails. Its still the best solo sub till 10 by far though, simply using your automaton to tank with a provoke attachment and 100 hp stoneskin, flash, etc.

It used to work by getting pup to level 40 and picking the whm automaton, then equiping the level 1 animator for whm or nin, using whm auto, and having hate free mp free cure IIIs to assist you in healing. Also the fact that it gets no magic aggro, making it great for nin soloing in dangerous places with magic aggro. It still works, but of course, sch and dnc sort of offer what it does for the most part, though the automaton doesn't need tp, it just has a set recast of 15 seconds or so instead. (with mana booster + optic fiber, toss in an ice maneuver to speed spells up)

[karichi]

blu/mnk for breath spell set up. I've used this combo probably 5 times in 1 year.

/brd is kinda nice at 22. +acc for all melee is pretty good for a quifim pt.

I did nin/cor while breaking the latent for coffinmaker (skill up prolly doesn't count though.)

/pld once again for skilling up. Especially when you need your tp to break a latent and don't wanna use /dnc. (again, skilling up prolly doesn't count).

[FailureMidgard]

No, shitty WHMs go exclusively /SCH. WHMs who actually give a shit about their job and know what they're doing will pick and choose which sub job to go as.

Yea, which 95%+ of the time is scholar...

/smn for Golden Salvage.
/blm for the few missions you want to ES sleepga
/rdm for shield skill ups
/nin for lots of fun
/sch for anything that requires you to be awake for

[Cesaria]

Last thing /BST needs is fixing - I run around WHM/BST and NIN/BST a fair bit and the combo rocks (was using NIN/BST and a furry tank to skill throwing up). The +chr gear different jobs have access to varies, and there isn't the extend charm aspect of AF and AF2 that normal BST has - but the combo rocks... did a few levels WHM/BST while breaking club of trials.

[BRP]

/BST's charm should only take in account the main job level and maybe a penalty for not having a full subjob level. (75/1 = bad, 75/37 = good)

EDIT: Maybe have it be equal to twice your subjob level, which would be a small nerf. (-1 level on some levels, including 75)

[The Blackrose]

I've only ever used /BRD once, and it was an awkward situation that worked out relatively well.

When I was going through my low 60s on BRD, a bunch of DRGs asked to abuse my level sync. I rolled with it and the experience was pretty damn well. Was 4 DRGs (either /RDM or /BLU), 1 BRD and me as MNK. Eventually the BRD lost connection and didn't come back. There were no BRDs seeking. The party lead went "Well, we really only need 1 tick refresh, since we're using Sanction Refresh too." He then asked if I had /BRD. I was already getting decent XP at this point, so I decided to humor them.

So suddenly it became 5 DRG/Mage wrecking shit. I don't think I ever flew through 60-65 that fast.

[Chen]

I sure would feel silly if I was asking for all SJs to be useful everywhere. I'm not, though, so I don't feel silly at all.

.

you sure? you sound upset that /BRD can't play two songs.

i don't see the point of moaning about subjobs, the issue is are all 75 jobs useful or not.

if you don't think /brd is a great sub, go /sch and get on with it.

[Tempyst]

I've only ever used /BRD once, and it was an awkward situation that worked out relatively well.

When I was going through my low 60s on BRD, a bunch of DRGs asked to abuse my level sync. I rolled with it and the experience was pretty damn well. Was 4 DRGs (either /RDM or /BLU), 1 BRD and me as MNK. Eventually the BRD lost connection and didn't come back. There were no BRDs seeking. The party lead went "Well, we really only need 1 tick refresh, since we're using Sanction Refresh too." He then asked if I had /BRD. I was already getting decent XP at this point, so I decided to humor them.

So suddenly it became 5 DRG/Mage wrecking shit. I don't think I ever flew through 60-65 that fast.

Love it when people find creative uses for unorthodox main/sub combos.

[dejet]

I know a whm who loves whm/pld. auto refresh with some extra things throw on top of it. Really if you think about it whm/pld > whm/smn once that extra mp is gone there is no use to smn outside the auto refresh that you gain from pld sub too. He said he likes it because it helps him as a taru have more hp and if he ever gets hit its not a big deal.

i used whm/pld a few times (for hitting campa mobs) its really not a bad sub for soloing ~_~ lol

[Rowe]

well charm is not a Skill, it's a Job Trait, SAM/WAR uses Berserk he gets the same effect as a WAR. So PLD/BST uses Charm he gets the same charm a BST gets, my BST is lvl 40 and my PLD is lvl 75 I do Escort Bastok every week as PLD/BST and breeze through it pretty quick, I can charm anything in crawler's nest as a PLD/BST which I don't think I'd be able to do as a lvl 40 BST. But I do get some miss-charms it may take a couple tries on the Helm Beetles.