Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit

[Vandalhart]

I found an eye witness picture of the night in question.

[tyven]

my fraternity held weekly meetings at the chapter house with 40+ people. never caused a problem one time. 15 people is nothing, even in an apartment complex

[Mizango]

It God's will.

[Stiker]

my fraternity held weekly meetings at the chapter house with 40+ people. never caused a problem one time. 15 people is nothing, even in an apartment complex

You saying this reminded me of something that happened back in college. In my last couple years at ND, the city of South Bend passed an ordinance that basically cock-blocked student parties off campus. You had to apply and pay for a permit to host any kind of a "public gathering". The fine for getting "caught" without one was about 4 times the cost of the permit iirc.

Now granted, it was a ridiculous ordinance, and there were many neighbors to students that never bothered to report it; however, there was nothing the students or anyone else that was against the ordinance could do legally to stop it as it was based on zoning laws.

[Day]

Thats why zoning is fucking lame imo. We fought that shit tooth and nail in our county, I think it eventually passed, but fuck man, I own some land/house i'll be fucked if someone is going to tell me what I can/can't do with it. Thats why I love the country.

[Correction]

Dumb zoning laws are dumb, but it wouldn't be the first time a local government has wielded them like a truncheon to manipulate land laws. Senoska is a class act as usual.

I USE HUGE LETTERS AND BOLDED TEXT BECAUSE COUNTY ZONING ORDINANCES ARE NOT TO BE CHALLENGED YOU PEON AFK FAPPING TO KIDDIE PORN

Replace the words 'Christian' and 'bible study' with, say 'Black people' and 'AA meetings' and you'd get a different reaction, maybe.

[Neosutra]

Dumb zoning laws are dumb, but it wouldn't be the first time a local government has wielded them like a truncheon to manipulate land laws. Senoska is a class act as usual.



Replace the words 'Christian' and 'bible study' with, say 'Black people' and 'AA meetings' and you'd get a different reaction, maybe.

I dont care if you replaced the words with "Chemotherapy treatment for dying children", I still dont want my entire apartment complex's parking lot filled every week by people that dont live there.

If only there were buildings specifically designed for people to go and practice their faith...

If only this guy was a pastor and had access to this building..

[Diamicles]

I used to live across the street from a 7th day adventist church, it was a one story house that they decided to have church sessions at. Never bothered me one bit. There was also a pizza hut across the street, which was bitchin.

edit: forgot to include that my street address was 666 also. and no, I'm not making that up.

[CalaisDL]

Thats why zoning is fucking lame imo. We fought that shit tooth and nail in our county, I think it eventually passed, but fuck man, I own some land/house i'll be fucked if someone is going to tell me what I can/can't do with it. Thats why I love the country.

You're already told what you can and can't do with your own land/house. For example you can't make any significant structural changes to your house without a building permit.

[Demosthenes11]

BG has become a parody of itself.

"My opinion has nothing to do with it being a christian meeting"
"ISNT IT FUNNY HOW CHRISTIANS ARE HYPORCRITES WHICH IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVENT TO THIS THREAD? LOL"

[Plow]

BG has become a parody of itself.

"My opinion has nothing to do with it being a christian meeting"
"ISNT IT FUNNY HOW CHRISTIANS ARE HYPORCRITES WHICH IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVENT TO THIS THREAD? LOL"

The best part is how the Christians are the ones that preach not to judge, but then are labeled as hypocrites for judging others, but often in the end the ones calling them out on being judgmental hypocrites are the most judgmental hypocrites of all.

[Correction]

The law can be dumb, and there is sufficient precedent to suspect that 'you are in violation of city zoning laws' is a pick-and-choose selective enforcement type of citation. The troubling part of this thread is how people willingly mash together relevant and irrelevant motivations for their argument and stick it on their chest like it's ironclad, mixed together or not.

For example. This is relevant:

I dont care if you replaced the words with "Chemotherapy treatment for dying children", I still dont want my entire apartment complex's parking lot filled every week by people that dont live there.

This is not:

If only there were buildings specifically designed for people to go and practice their faith...

If only this guy was a pastor and had access to this building..

If noise, crowding and other environmental impact are an issue then yes the city can step in but from the news as reported, none of these were a concern. The law was wielded because allegedly some guy's car got dinged. It's still worth exploring whether or not they're being singled out because it's Bible Study and ohnoes we can't have that in THIS neighborhood, by gum. Hence the legal challenge. If they lose, they appeal. That's their right as citizens.

Meanwhile the trolls of this thread seem gleeful that the law was used against Christians, hiding behind the 'ZONING LAW ZONING LAW GLERP DERP TAKE THAT CHRISTIANS' argument over and over. It's typical BG peanut gallery hooting and we're all used to it by now, but it's still horseshit.

[Demosthenes11]

what makes me uneasy about it is the fact that the officers allegedly asked what was going on in there. If it was simply too many people, it wouldn't matter what they were doing.

[Neosutra]

The law can be dumb, and there is sufficient precedent to suspect that 'you are in violation of city zoning laws' is a pick-and-choose selective enforcement type of citation. The troubling part of this thread is how people willingly mash together relevant and irrelevant motivations for their argument and stick it on their chest like it's ironclad, mixed together or not.

For example. This is relevant:


This is not:


If noise, crowding and other environmental impact are an issue then yes the city can step in but from the news as reported, none of these were a concern. The law was wielded because allegedly some guy's car got dinged. It's still worth exploring whether or not they're being singled out because it's Bible Study and ohnoes we can't have that in THIS neighborhood, by gum. Hence the legal challenge. If they lose, they appeal. That's their right as citizens.

Meanwhile the trolls of this thread seem gleeful that the law was used against Christians, hiding behind the 'ZONING LAW ZONING LAW GLERP DERP TAKE THAT CHRISTIANS' argument over and over. It's typical BG peanut gallery hooting and we're all used to it by now, but it's still horseshit.

Pointing out that they shouldnt need to gather at this guys house and crowd up the place isnt "irrelevant".

And had this been a local latino culture meeting every week, Fox wouldnt have touched it. It isnt BG trolling the christian community when we observe obvious bias in the news on this story.

Get a permit, stop fucking with your neighbors, or go use the church you already own for this specific purpose.

[Dimmauk]

I bet if it was a Swingers party the cop would have left them alone.

[Neosutra]

I bet if it was a Swingers party the cop would have left them alone.

Fuck that. Cop would have joined in.

"Whats going on here... bow cha ca wow wow".

[Correction]

Pointing out that they shouldnt need to gather at this guys house and crowd up the place isnt "irrelevant".

It is if the government is exceeding its authority in threatening fines unless you move 15 people from one block to another.

Get a permit, stop fucking with your neighbors, or go use the church you already own for this specific purpose.

Bolded the part that I didn't gather from the news stories posted. People are assuming that 15 separate cars were driven to the complex every week and that every parking spot available was being taken. Neither of these are demonstrably true. You can fit 15 people into two cars if they're big enough and the people aren't morbidly obese. Assume a happy medium and you're still only talking ~6 cars, hardly in excess of what a residential area is designed to handle. 15 people also fit comfortably into a 15'x10' room, so it's not like they're taking up all the space in the neighborhood or creating massive amounts of litter.

What I'm not seeing here is a factually-based rationale for why they need a special use permit. Everyone is jumping on the worst-case scenario because they assume Christians are evil and are out to fuck with their neighbors every week. And I love how 'the law is paramount' becomes BG's cause celebre when it smacks christians around, but if it's teenagers in a mall smoking pot, the tune changes to 'fuck the government and its laws.'

[Tristam]

It is if the government is exceeding its authority in threatening fines unless you move 15 people from one block to another.



Bolded the part that I didn't gather from the news stories posted. People are assuming that 15 separate cars were driven to the complex every week and that every parking spot available was being taken. Neither of these are demonstrably true. You can fit 15 people into two cars if they're big enough and the people aren't morbidly obese. Assume a happy medium and you're still only talking ~6 cars, hardly in excess of what a residential area is designed to handle. 15 people also fit comfortably into a 15'x10' room, so it's not like they're taking up all the space in the neighborhood or creating massive amounts of litter.

What I'm not seeing here is a factually-based rationale for why they need a special use permit. Everyone is jumping on the worst-case scenario because they assume Christians are evil and are out to fuck with their neighbors every week. And I love how 'the law is paramount' becomes BG's cause celebre when it smacks christians around, but if it's teenagers in a mall smoking pot, the tune changes to 'fuck the government and its laws.'

Look at the video, there isn't space for five cars in that lot.

edit: for what it's worth, I think the big story here is the priest is obviously the neighborhood jerk.

[Plow]

Fuck that. Cop would have joined in.

"Whats going on here... bow cha ca wow wow".

<Insert Dr. Cox in Wild Hogs + priest joke here>

[Norellicus]

It is if the government is exceeding its authority in threatening fines unless you move 15 people from one block to another.



Bolded the part that I didn't gather from the news stories posted. People are assuming that 15 separate cars were driven to the complex every week and that every parking spot available was being taken. Neither of these are demonstrably true. You can fit 15 people into two cars if they're big enough and the people aren't morbidly obese. Assume a happy medium and you're still only talking ~6 cars, hardly in excess of what a residential area is designed to handle. 15 people also fit comfortably into a 15'x10' room, so it's not like they're taking up all the space in the neighborhood or creating massive amounts of litter.

What I'm not seeing here is a factually-based rationale for why they need a special use permit. Everyone is jumping on the worst-case scenario because they assume Christians are evil and are out to fuck with their neighbors every week. And I love how 'the law is paramount' becomes BG's cause celebre when it smacks christians around, but if it's teenagers in a mall smoking pot, the tune changes to 'fuck the government and its laws.'