Abortion doctor has been murdered in his church

[EternityEnd]

What you just quoted described agnosticism, I fail to see the relevance.

I am not debating theology. I am debating the definition of atheism, and I just won the debate with that last post, because there is nothing you can say to correctly argue against it.

[Kaeko]

I've helped a friend through an abortion, so you can throw that shit out of the window.

There must have been some kind of misinformation because the way the story was written was like he performed late-term abortions at the whim of the mothers and not because they were in any danger.

And no, I didn't say he 'deserved' it. My choice of words were simply poor.

I am not pro-life or anti-abortion. I had to look my best friend in the eye after she had one done and watched how much it tore her up and how it affected her. I had to sit outside the clinic and watch protesters spew hateful shit at her because she made a poor choice and did what she believed to be right for herself.

I don't agree with the choice to carry out an abortion. I think it's irresponsible unless your life is in danger or even in the case of rape. That doesn't mean I don't have a measure of sympathy for women who get them. It also doesn't mean I'm a heartless ass who revels in some dude who did them getting killed. It simply means that putting the guy up on a pedestal as if he's some kind of a martyr is a stretch.

I'd feel the same way if some guy down the street was shot to death for selling weed on the streets. I guess to some people it would give some measure of happiness but I believe it's wrong and I wouldn't fucking flip out and cry that he was such an awesome guy who was senselessly killed.

People choose to make the choices they make that lead them to the fate they are left with. If I spent every day crying over senseless murders and deaths I think I would be dehydrated within a week. It's tragic and stupid that the man was murdered in an act of domestic terrorism. It's also unfortunate that it was over an abortion clinic. It's absolutely retarded that the people who killed him think they were doing the right thing by killing him.

I still don't agree with what he did, period. Why is this such a federal case? I don't condone his killing, and I don't condone his position as an abortion physician. How is that so difficult to understand that my words have to be moved from "he had it coming" to "yea that bastard deserved to die"?

Sorry, I must be very terrible at communicating my thoughts.

This is a tough issue that only got tougher when I entered Medical School. On the surface, the issue can be extremely black and white, but when you say meet a husband and wife in her second trimester and they just found out their child will almost certainly die within the first 2-3 years of life due to multiple genetic defects. Say the family is not financially secure and supporting this child will most certainly bankrupt them even with assistance. Stories like this aren't exactly common, but they aren't 'once in a blue moon' either.

While a story like that won't convince many pro-life people, I'd hope that it would at least give people a deeper understanding as to why many post-1st trimester abortions occur. Someone already mentioned it earlier in this thread prior to the derail, but nearly all, if not all of this doctor's 21+ week abortions were due to the diagnosis of a strong genetic defect. I think even about 33% of the families were CATHOLIC. Those are either some really flimsy Catholics, or they just realized that not everything is as black and white as we're often taught. Similar to how Nancy Reagan became a supporter of Stem Cell Research after watching her husband's body essentially destroy itself, I think situations like this often change people's views once it affects them personally.

Lastly, this is obviously a senseless murder, but I think one of the greatest hopes for medical science in the future is to develop ways to make these moral decisions unnecessary. If you can diagnose certain genetic diseases at an earlier stage of pregnancy, you can make 2nd-trimester abortions obsolete. I know this won't please everyone (I believe the Pope even tells people not to use condoms?), but it's certainly a start.

[Neosutra]

So apparently stating the all current theories of gods are logically and scientifically impossible makes you an agnostic.

Amazing.

[Plow]

This is you 2 pages ago

Except the part where you're the one who is wrong, Plow. Atheism is a lack of belief, not the "belief that there is no God."

This is you 2 minutes ago

Strict atheism concludes that there is no God. There isn't. No room for error. You don't have to have faith in facts.

What the hell is wrong with your brain?

[EternityEnd]

Those two quotes don't contradict each other. I'll hold for a few minutes while you try to solidify your argument again. You don't have to post filler.

[Neosutra]

So apparently stating the all current theories of gods are logically and scientifically impossible makes you an agnostic.

[Plow]

So apparently stating the all current theories of gods are logically and scientifically impossible makes you an agnostic.

Amazing.

Please, tell me, what is that if not agnostic?


It could be considered a part of atheism... if you add in the belief that they're all wrong because there is no God, period.


If you believe there may be, or is a God, but simply that religions have it wrong, that's sure as hell not atheism.

[EternityEnd]

Want to just give up now, Plow? It's 3-4 v.s. 1. Take a hint. You haven't even commented on anything of relevance that we have said lately, just quoting things two pages back and being like "lol ur dumb ur brain bleeding?????"

[Plow]

Those two quotes don't contradict each other.

The only way you're differentiating them is by deciding that atheism is fact and religion is belief.

I'll hold for a few minutes while you try to solidify your argument again. You don't have to post filler.

Clearly everyone else besides you in this thread lacks common sense.

Triple whammy.

What a fucking idiot.

You guys are just too fun.

[EternityEnd]

Shall I quote the 10+ posts of childish nonsense that you spewed, that were twice as bad as that, or are you going to save me energy?

[Plow]

Want to just give up now, Plow? It's 3-4 v.s. 1. Take a hint. You haven't even commented on anything of relevance that we have said lately, just quoting things two pages back and being like "lol ur dumb ur brain bleeding?????"

You + neo would be lucky for your brains to be counted as 1 person.

Keep on trying to dodge the fact that you were wrong by making up ridiculous "facts," and filling half the thread with random insults in order to dodge continually being proven wrong.

[Plow]

Shall I quote the 10+ posts of childish nonsense that you spewed, that were twice as bad as that, or are you going to save me energy?

Find a post I made that was some retarded ass insult with nothing about the actual conversation whatsoever.


Oh, wait, those were all you.

[Neosutra]

Please, tell me, what is that if not agnostic?


It could be considered a part of atheism... if you add in the belief that they're all wrong because there is no God, period.


If you believe there may be, or is a God, but simply that religions have it wrong, that's sure as hell not atheism.

Hi.

So apparently stating the all current theories of gods are logically and scientifically impossible makes you an agnostic.

If a person rejects the belief in all "gods", as they find them to be logically and scientifically impossible, then that person is an atheist.

[EternityEnd]

ITT idiot says dumb thing to try to make his beliefs sound superior and gets upset when he realizes he can't support his insults.

I find it tremendously amusing that calling someone else out on trying to act superior with no comment whatsoever on the "quality" of one's beliefs results in nothing but idiotic insults about religion.


The fact that it's in a thread full of people talking about how dumb religious people are makes it even more amazing.

If you have the reading comprehension skills of a 3rd grader or better, yes, it is.

I remembered when I was 13 and labeling myself with certain words sounded super cool, and anybody that pointed out my mistakes was just an asshole that didn't understand.

Oh, wow, I totally thought you realized how much the definition of disbelief supported what I was saying when you quoted it, this post is A+++++++ would read again.

ssshhhh, you'll damper the rage instilled by the artificial inks inscribed in their hair and skin oh-so-anti-conformist-ly


saying you're an atheist sounds waaaaaaaay cooler, duh

Please, explain to me where I backpedaled.


Also, use Firefox or something if you're going to call people stupid in a discussion over the meaning of words and can't use the language worth a shit.

Stubborn?

Another of your brilliant arguments.


Please, tell me more, I really want to open my mind to disbelief or the refusal to believe.

K

Hmmm.

[Neosutra]

lolowned.

[EternityEnd]

Find a post I made that was some retarded ass insult with nothing about the actual conversation whatsoever.


Oh, wait, those were all you.

I'm sorry, look above.

Current Mood: Amused.

^ LJ poast.

Edit: Hot damn, I am good. It was 10(+) posts, just as I predicted. I should get a job as a fortune teller or something, too bad I don't believe in stuff like that.

[Plow]

Hi.

So apparently stating the all current theories of gods are logically and scientifically impossible makes you an agnostic.

If a person rejects the belief in all "gods", as they find them to be logically and scientifically impossible, then that person is an atheist.

THERE IS A HUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE HERE.

Let me spell it out for your feeble little mind.

So apparently stating the all current theories of gods are logically and scientifically impossible makes you an agnostic.

If a person rejects the belief in all "gods", as they find them to be logically and scientifically impossible, then that person is an atheist.

CAN YOU SEE THE KEY WORD HERE?


Once again, let me spell it out for you:

Agnosticism is the belief that all current religions are wrong, but that there may or may not be a God.

Atheism is the belief that there is not a God, period.

[EternityEnd]

Atheism is the belief that there is not a God, period.

Oh wait, you're wrong. I already disproved that. If only you read my posts... Here you go, I'm nice:

believe definition | Dictionary.com

–verb (used without object)
1. to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.

What you are describing is agnosticism, not atheism. Atheism has no "belief", because "belief" adheres that there is room for error. "to have confidence in", "without absolute proof" Strict atheism concludes that there is no God. There isn't. No room for error. You don't have to have faith in facts.

Agnosticism, however, concedes that there is no way to prove either point, though one may be more logically sound than the other.

You lose.

[Neosutra]

THERE IS A HUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE HERE.

Let me spell it out for your feeble little mind.







CAN YOU SEE THE KEY WORD HERE?


Once again, let me spell it out for you:

Agnosticism is the belief that all current religions are wrong, but that there may or may not be a God.

Atheism is the belief that there is not a God, period.

First off, there are many definitions of both. Many agnostics simply believe there isnt enough evidence to prove or disprove any given religion or god, and not simply a "disbelief in all religions".

And you cant state that all atheists are actually theists or agnostics just because someday someone might redefine the word 'god' to mean something that is logically and scientifically acceptable, thats just silly.

[EternityEnd]

Plow, you should respond to that post where I owned you so hard with like 10 quotes, man. I want teh funniez.

But no, really... You should. I'm eagerly awaiting it.