French Plane lost over Atlantic

[Yeager]

I would go over it. Because that's how I roll.

You can't fly over a thunderstorm that has the tops of it's clouds at 50,000 feet.

The maximum cruising altitude for any commercial airliner is 35,000-36,000 feet. Now as for why the captain chose to fly THROUGH this massive thunderstorm as opposed to flying around it? I guess we'll never find out.

[Artful Dodger]

I'm pretty sure that driving is statistically way more dangerous/fatal then flying.

yea but the percentage of people who can tell you about the car accident they were in, is exponentially higher than those who can tell you about the plane they were in. the stakes are much higher, i cant fly without medication

[Aangeliceus]

The maximum cruising altitude for any commercial airliner is 35,000-36,000 feet. Now as for why the captain chose to fly THROUGH this massive thunderstorm as opposed to flying around it? I guess we'll never find out.

Realistically, that would be ideal... however the required fuel burn to conduct such a maneuver may not have been possible. (i.e circle around the storm, only to find yourself back over the middle of the Atlantic with reduced fuel.) I have forgotten the required fuel amounts now, but there's always extra fuel for a diversion or unexpected delay in landing. I think each airline has their own rules and maybe each governing aviation body has some set rules about this as well.

None of us can really tell until they get the black boxes back.

[Ollieyk]

None of us can really tell until they get the black boxes back.

Never going to happen. It's at the bottom of the Atlantic by now...

[Aangeliceus]

Never going to happen. It's at the bottom of the Atlantic by now...

They should be able to get them, they've got location beacons on them and it's been done before when another airliner went down in the north Atlantic some years ago.

Once the boats get there, I'll bet they can track the beacons.

[Ollieyk]

If it's now lying on the sea bed, it's 7000 meters under the surface. I didn't even think things could dive that low. Does the Black Box have to be physically recovered to relay any messages? I've honestly got no idea :/

[kuronosan]

If they can dive low enough to find the Titanic without any radio beacons, they can dive low enough to find black boxes with tracking devices in them. Titanic may have only been roughly 4000m under the sea, but there's no guarantee that it's how deep those boxes have fallen.

[Tristam]

Realistically, that would be ideal... however the required fuel burn to conduct such a maneuver may not have been possible. (i.e circle around the storm, only to find yourself back over the middle of the Atlantic with reduced fuel.) I have forgotten the required fuel amounts now, but there's always extra fuel for a diversion or unexpected delay in landing. I think each airline has their own rules and maybe each governing aviation body has some set rules about this as well.

None of us can really tell until they get the black boxes back.

Pilots routinely fly around thunderstorms, that's why their planes are equipped with radar. Sometimes the radar isn't perfect or dosen't catch a quickly forming tropical storm, couple that with low visibility at night, etc etc. If an airline wasn't properly prepared to fly around a storm, that's a really big problem with the airline and they'd likely be found liable.

Now oceanic storms are no joke, especially compared to most thunderstorms overland, not necessarily because of the lightning, but the sudden and sometimes violent changes in airflow/pressure can seriously fuck up the aerodynamics of a plane similar to this crash.

BOAC Flight 911 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

fwiw, it's possible for a storm to build faster than an airplane can climb.

But yes, much like the Buffalo disaster, all we can do right now is speculate. Hopefully the CVR and FDR will shed some light on the situation (if they can find it).

edit: For weather buffs, here's meteorological conditions immediately surrounding the crash. I can't make heads or tails of it but someone here might find it technically interesting or perhaps insightful.

http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/

(for non-weather buffs there's a conclusions section at the end)

[Seraph]

How the hell are people afraid on an airplane? I find the situation of 'helplessness' the same as riding on a train, boat, or car. If that disaster situation happens, the only thing you can do is make sure you were wearing your safety belt, and protect your head. I should list all the things that kill more people than plane crashes each year, but I just don't have the strength. Besides, if you get destroyed in a plane crash, at least you know your family will be taken care of with the insane lawsuit money.

Honestly, the scariest thing that has ever happened to me on a flight is the dumb bitch sitting next to me spilled her cup of grape juice all over. That shit stains!

[Aangeliceus]

Without doing some digging:

1) The actual depth of the water where the airline parts reside, is currently unknown.
2) The most recent robot capable of diving that deep.

I looked up some ocean depths and the robots quickly via Google. It seems that diving to around at least 8,000m should not be a problem. (for a robot submersible)

The recorders are designed to withstand fire/water/pressure, so I think and hope they will be found intact.

@Tristam: True statements, I agree. It's those equator storms that are horrific. Which is, I think, a large speculation point right now. The pilot probably made a judgment call to bite the bullet and try to go through it. (pure guess) The liability will lie on the pilot and airline if indeed there was an option to go around, or over... depending on how high the storms were. I would think they would have been equipped for that, knowing the area they were going to fly through.

@Ollieyk: they need the physical boxes to get the data. There's no way to get the data without the boxes themselves.

I love flying and routinely fly across the pacific a few times a year, ironically...we're going to America in about 13 days... the worst thing that might happen is a few bumps. :D

[Kerberoz]

If it's now lying on the sea bed, it's 7000 meters under the surface. I didn't even think things could dive that low. Does the Black Box have to be physically recovered to relay any messages? I've honestly got no idea :/

The box itself floats, and most of the pieces would probably float, too. It's most definitely in pieces if it did fail an emergency landing. Real life isn't like the opening to Bioshock.

[Brill Weave]

You can't fly over a thunderstorm that has the tops of it's clouds at 50,000 feet.

Recognizing levity isn't your strong point is it? And Dimmauk that wouldn't be me looking out the window. I was too busy closing my eyes praying to every deity I could think of. No time to admire the scenery!

[Nibe]

A

[kuronosan]

Well they've confirmed that it was indeed AirFrance's flight:

'Nightmare' as kin recall jet victims - Americas- msnbc.com

[Dimmauk]

Recognizing levity isn't your strong point is it? And Dimmauk that wouldn't be me looking out the window. I was too busy closing my eyes praying to every deity I could think of. No time to admire the scenery!

Everytime I have a plane trip, I watch that Twilight zone and Airplane.

[Tristam]

Diverting course in a mid-Atlantic flight just isn't something you can do all the time. A lot of times those planes don't have near enough fuel in them to divert on a course that the pilot probably would have felt necessary to go completely around the storm. That being said, considering the pilot had almost 30,000 hours of experience or so, he was probably former military and knew the risks of going into that storm. Pilots fly through them all the time without problems and it was just going to be another one of those. My best guess is a huge wind blast that most likely literally just knocked it out of the air into an uncontrolled spin.

I agree that it's sometimes impossible, especially on a long trans-atlantic flight, to divert to another destination. But I doubt any pilot plows into a thunderstorm unless they're boxed in or have another very good (and rare) reason. Like you mentioned, it's deadly, and I'm sure pilots like being alive just as much as we do. I think we should give the crew the benefit of the doubt and assume for now that they were caught unawares by a fast rising cumulonimbus tower, or some other activity, that didn't show up extensively on the radar until too late.

Air stories: What planes can and can't do - Thunderstorms and hail

For the best information, or if you want to become terrified of flying, lurk the airline pilot forums, their "major" subforum has a large thread chock full of info.

[Brill Weave]

I like trains. That is all.

[Popeh]

looks like they found it...........

Wreckage seen in search area for missing plane - CNN.com

And it's still missing again...

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Debris 'not from Air France jet'

[Kiro]

LOL

[6souls]

And it's still missing again...

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Debris 'not from Air France jet'

A Spanish pilot flying in the area at the time of the crash was quoted by his airline, Air Comet, as saying he had seen an "intense flash of white light, which followed a descending and vertical trajectory and which broke up in six seconds."

quite a way to go.