Random PLD Questions

[Darlantan]

I find it interesting most of you say you should fully merit HP, but then you say Kaiser Shield > Terror. I figure you all are implying that shield ranking is considering you are fighting a mob of the beast family... because otherwise, please explain how 6 vit and some defense is better than 20 hp, considering most stuff is blink tanked, and that you are saying how important hp is. Or is it for the CHR for provoke and the legendary white box?!?!

[Darkanaseur]

I find it interesting most of you say you should fully merit HP, but then you say Kaiser Shield > Terror. I figure you all are implying that shield ranking is considering you are fighting a mob of the beast family... because otherwise, please explain how 6 vit and some defense is better than 20 hp, considering most stuff is blink tanked, and that you are saying how important hp is. Or is it for the CHR for provoke and the legendary white box?!?!

Because the higher damage reduction will out last the extra 20hp? Merits are always there and will kick in when you need them.

[Spekkio]

shield block damage reduction iirc is calculated by the following equation:
.005*shield def+Csize
where Csize is a constant based on the shield's size. this is a large factor in what makes aegis block damage like a stone wall, having such high def on the shield slot.

[Darlantan]

Yeah, but it still comes out as 1.5% difference of damage reduction between Kaiser and Terror, and 1% between Koenig and Terror.

In most fights, you will take very few hits. If you do, koenig will take 1/2/3/4 damage off a 100/200/300 damage hit, roughly (please correct me if I am doing the maths wrong), and kaiser will take 1.5/3/4.5 off. Thats not a lot, and 20 hp, on the other hand, will lower the hate you bleed from those hits. Also, the dangerous situations will be when you are stun'ed, terrorized and eating hits, where you can't shield block anyway.

I still dont see how you can label Terror Shield the same as Koenig, and worse than Kaiser, except for tanking beasts and blood tanking, I guess.

[Spekkio]

the difference 20 hp will make on enmity degradation from taking hits would be somewhere between marginal and piddling and probably less than the reduction of 1% of the damage (actually a little more as each % is worth more than the last like w/ mdt), though the 20 HP does represent more survivability than the 1% damage reduction since shield blocks are not 100%. the enmity added on the terror shield imo would make the terror shield superior to koenig, but kaiser vs terror is a comparison of the value of 20 HP and 1.5% damage reduction on the block since they have equal enmity values. this would indicate to me that the kaiser>terror>koenig hierarchy would probably be the best unless you're somehow capping out enmity with the koenig on and i doubt if you're pulling that off w/o sentinel.

[belzedar]

Personally, I'd rank Terror > Kaiser for non-kiting non-beast mobs. Darlantan nailed it - the extra HP will increase your survivability in any realistic situation more than the 1.5% reduction on shield blocks. The only exception I can think of is maybe PLD/RDM and PLD/DNC fights where you're never getting cured all the way back to full HP, or saving a couple MP/TP could make the difference. Maybe there's a case I haven't thought of?

That being said, the difference between the two is pretty small, and Beast Killer does come in handy here and there. So if you can afford either and don't ever want to carry around two shields, you're probably better off with a Kaiser.

[Max™]

Koenig is 180k, Terror is 1.3 mil, Kaiser is 4 mil.

You get a lot more shield for the gil with a Koenig, Terror is cool, but if you have other things to upgrade it wouldn't be at the top of the list, though I miss mine. Kaiser is only cool for /Rdm, /Dnc, and intimidating shit.

[Massimo]

2. I have a Wivre+1, but I only use it kiting. I feel that the extra damage reduction from a Kaiser/Koenig/Terror will outweigh 2-3 Enmity, especially the longer the fight goes on when it's just a matter of maintaining hate and not building it.

Hm. Wivre +1 and Terror is the same model. Shouldn't you be able to tank in Terror, while swapping in Wivre +1 for JAs/Flash without losing your TP? I may be wrong, but I seem to remember something about this sort of thing.

[Raen Ryong]

I think the losing TP when switching gear applies to that slot and not the fact that we blink as a result of switching it, otherwise we'd lose TP every time we switched head/body/hands/legs/feet

[Plow]

Out of curiosity, considering I'm sure you would have mentioned having an Excalibur, what's your justification for upgrading Burtgang? What are you planning on using it for?

Uh, did you mean "I'm sure you would have mentioned having an Aegis"?

[jammalamma]

Besides, lets face it. Broadswords are way more PLD'ish than rapiers.

Not entirely true from a historical perspective. Rapiers had their purpose with knights/paladins the same way that clubs did. Considering how knights/paladins operated in terms of weapon selection, it's a bit fallacious to identify them as more to one weapon type when they are known to use the most effective weapon. Some form of rapiers were capable of piercing plate armor, clubs were the ideal weapon against plate armor. The broadsword was practically ineffective against plate and isn't any more significant than any other knightly weapon outside of King Arthur's court.

But since everything has been said about haut/shields that can be said, I'd just like to chime in that you should honestly base your HP/MP merits on other things you do outside of HNM tanking.

Let's be for serious here, in most cases the increase in HP merits isn't going to make or break you in tanking. There's very few mobs that will do enough damage in a single shot that isn't going to break 2k+ to begin with. Hell, the only time I ever really get unlucky one shot is from sulfurous breath when buffs wear..=( But even then that doesn't really one shot you unless you're already below like 1k.

But yeah, while people advise HP because the rate you get MP back > max HP, there may be situations in the game where MP merits are beneficial. Like for me when I do ballista as MNK/BLU, the 4 MP merits puts me that much further over the edge of my competition because I can squeeze out an extra wild carrot. Or when I'm soloing as DRG/WHM or duoing I believe that I get a bit more out of the MP merits than I would an additional 4 HP merits. That being said, your HP/MP merits really should be based on what you plan to do outside of tanking since neither are really that important to tanking where as in other activities such as ballista and solo where there is no high amounts of refresh available for most jobs, max MP does matter.

[Furionstormrage]

Hm. Wivre +1 and Terror is the same model. Shouldn't you be able to tank in Terror, while swapping in Wivre +1 for JAs/Flash without losing your TP? I may be wrong, but I seem to remember something about this sort of thing.

You'd lose TP.

[Seraph]

Swapping any piece of gear in the top row (excluding the 'Ammo' slot) will cause a loss of TP. So, Main Hand, Sub Hand, and Ranged slots will all cause a TP loss if you change what you have in them. This is what allows RNGs and CORs and such to change ammo for a weaponskill without losing TP. It is the single exception to the 'change weapon, lose TP' rule.

For a PLD, considering how useful TP is for Atonement, and Chivalry, I can't think of any serious situation where swapping out shields would ever be worth the TP loss. The _only_ time I do it is when I swap out Sword and Shield for my Iron Ram Lance for my Magic Damage Taken macro, usually on Proto-Ultima. I always pop off a Chivalry before i use it the first time though, so the TP loss isnt too huge a deal.

[Ultimagi]

Swapping any piece of gear in the top row (excluding Ammunition, Instruments, or Throwing items) will cause a loss of TP.

Fixed.

[Seraph]

Fixed.

Well, I knew about the ammo slot (ammo and throwing weapons). I've never even changed jobs to BRD, I was unaware of the instrument fact as well. Good catch.

[Furionstormrage]

I'd never recommend losing TP to get a couple more Enmity in your actions, it's not even close to being worth it.

[Ultimagi]

Not sure, but Chakrams too, no?

[Spekkio]

i believe you can change out throwable items (or items that used to be throwable) without penalty b/c if you couldn't equip new throwing items after you ran out without losing tp, throwing items would...be...worthless...oh right. they're still worthless. nevertheless, i assume that was their logic and by recognizing it, it makes it easy to piece together what will and won't turf your TP when you swap it.

[Gryffes]

What's the standard set of paladin merits these days?
Asking for a friend.

[Thorny]

Not sure, but Chakrams too, no?

No. Using NIN as an example, you can change from ungur to fenrir's stone when it hits nighttime without losing tp. You can change back and forth between fen stone and bomblet as well, for WS. If you change from bomblet or fen stone to ungur, you lose tp.