Random PLD Questions

[Neosutra]

What's the standard set of paladin merits these days?
Asking for a friend.

5 Sent, 5 rampart(or shield bash if have aegis and /swoon every SB).

The tier2 depends on your pld:

I LOVE 5/5 chivalry, it makes soloing and low manning ALOT easier. I can pretty much main heal my entire alliance with all of the mp restore I have and max chivalry.

Then at least one into fealty, one into Guardian, and other 3 into whichever you want the most.

I like fealty alot so I put 5/5 chiv, 4/5 fealty, 1/5 guardian, but alot of people see fealty as a "use once in a while" move that you wont need up that much and prefer the 4/5 guardian for better hate management (which is probably best).

Oh, and 8/8 sword for atontement spam, right after 4/4 shield.

[Valyana]

Throwing items aren't worthless: Darts are useful for pulling and then going back to your Fire Bomblet.

As for Chakrams, I lose TP on BRD when I switch from an instrument to my Mamoolbane.

[Julian]

I wouldn't exactly rule out MP merits, it really depends on your playstyle. I'm very content with my 8 MP merits on my Taru pld, and have no desire to switch them.

[Furionstormrage]

I have 8HP, 8 Sword, 4 Shield, 4 Enmity, 5 Sentinel, 5 Shield Bash, 5 Chivalry, 1 Fealty, 4 Guardian.

I like my 5/5 Shield Bash even without Aegis, it's more VE than Rampart assuming your Rampart won't always hit everyone in your PT, and it's an extra Stun that can save your butt if something happens to your stunners (also nice for soloing).

[xua]

Out of curiosity, considering I'm sure you would have mentioned having an Excalibur, what's your justification for upgrading Burtgang? What are you planning on using it for?

I'm not sure why I would have mentioned this, nor mentioned having Aegis if that is what you meant. I also do not believe my reasons for doing anything are the subject of any question but yours. I'm asking a simple question regarding this BC fight which I'm pretty sure bears no relevance to what weapon or shield choices I have at my disposal.

That being said, it seems unlikely my question will be answered here, so for the time being I'll assume what you meant to ask (namely, why upgrade Burtgang instead of Excalibur and/or Aegis) and answer as such. The short answer is because I want to. It's an extremely difficult, time consuming quest that yields an equal amount of self satisfaction after completing. I'm also left with something much more unique than your average Aegis that seems to come a dime a dozen these days. On my server, it's also half the price tag. The long answer is that I started this quest back when aftermath was assumed to be much better than it ended up being. After a careful look at my options, as well as the reasons I listed just above, I decided it was worth finishing. As for what I plan on using it for... Is this a serious question?

[Tsuko_Asura]

I'll ignore the snippy tone to an honest question.

And yes, its quite serious, because as far as practical application is concerned, there aren't many situations where you're better off using it instead of say, a Joyeuse.

Regardless, I'm not looking for a debate, just an answer.

[xua]

You assume a great deal from my post just because I didn't add "oh by the way, I have Excalibur" somewhere in there randomly. Thus I felt it only fair to assume based on your questioning what it was you were really asking, and implying. Such words like "justification" make it sound like I do not have legitimate reasons for doing so (as if I need them) and am rather making excuses for not upgrading a "real" weapon, right? Sorry, this is just how you came across as, so I replied accordingly, and I don't recall adding a tone to my writing.

As for use, it would fall in the Hauteclaire category, and I'd probably be one of those who use it instead of Joyeuse simply because I can, I like the way it looks, I like to show off what I've done, and I don't care (a sentiment that was put much more bluntly earlier.)

[Tsuko_Asura]

Well then, I already had an inkling that you were an idiot, but its pretty grand that you're an idiot with an attitude to boot.

Enjoy your weapon, that you admittedly aren't likely to use properly.

[xua]

I didn't mean to give the impression that I have Hauteclaire and was making a trivial upgrade, as I do not. I simply meant its use would fall into that category (and eclipse situations where you'd use Mac+1 as well)

As for discarding Joyeuse, it was more or less a joke. Sure I'd probably BurtgangOnry it up for the first month or so until the novelty wore off and I came back to my senses.

And uh, you're calling me an idiot (based on?) and I'm the one with an attitude problem?

[Furionstormrage]

PLDs: If we're not bitching about blinking, we're bitching about swords.

[Thorny]

you're calling me an idiot (based on?)

based on the fact that a pld not aiming to maximize damage is basically a rdm tank with less survivability

[Tsuko_Asura]

based on the fact that a pld not aiming to maximize damage is basically a rdm tank with less survivability

We could totally adopt a little Indonesian kid and start a family together. I'll even let you top.

[xua]

based on the fact that a pld not aiming to maximize damage is basically a rdm tank with less survivability

So in other words I should just /sam and 6-hit on Algol? Boy have I been mislead

I'd like to thank everyone for reminding me why I never look here unless I'm totally desperate. You've been great.

[Tsuko_Asura]

So in other words I should just /sam and 6-hit on Algol? Boy have I been mislead

I'd like to thank everyone for reminding me why I never look here unless I'm totally desperate. You've been great.

Way to take a solid point and blow it way out of proportion.

[Thorny]

We could totally adopt a little Indonesian kid and start a family together. I'll even let you top.

<3

So in other words I should just /sam and 6-hit on Algol? Boy have I been mislead

I'd like to thank everyone for reminding me why I never look here unless I'm totally desperate. You've been great.

Within reason.. the main advantage of a PLD tank is that they put out significant damage while tanking. A RDM can get and maintain hate cap while having higher survivability, though they do no damage. If you want to be a PLD tank, realize that your strength is the ability to deal damage while tanking.

[seiji]

i believe you can change out throwable items (or items that used to be throwable) without penalty b/c if you couldn't equip new throwing items after you ran out without losing tp, throwing items would...be...worthless...oh right. they're still worthless. nevertheless, i assume that was their logic and by recognizing it, it makes it easy to piece together what will and won't turf your TP when you swap it.

it's just about slot, main sub range slots swap will loose tp, ammo slot wont

[Neosutra]

<3



Within reason.. the main advantage of a PLD tank is that they put out significant damage while tanking. A RDM can get and maintain hate cap while having higher survivability, though they do no damage. If you want to be a PLD tank, realize that your strength is the ability to deal damage while tanking.

My pld has significantly more survivability than a rdm lol.

However rdm can probably keep closer to hate cap in some sitations.

[Darlantan]

So in other words I should just /sam and 6-hit on Algol? Boy have I been mislead

I'd like to thank everyone for reminding me why I never look here unless I'm totally desperate. You've been great.

Sin palabras.

[Tsuko_Asura]

My pld has significantly more survivability than a rdm lol.

However rdm can probably keep closer to hate cap in some sitations.

Outside of Sentinel(which is admittedly powerful), I really don't see how Paladin has any edge in survivability. Shield blocking is nice, but its primary purpose(these days, anyway) is to allow you to get shadows back up, which is a complete non issue for a Red Mage. Also, lets not forget the mileage of a 410 Stoneskin that we can constantly reapply if necessary.

As far as flat-out pummeling goes, the difference isn't as significant as you'd think. Shield blocks help tremendously, but we still operate on a slightly stronger Phalanx, and have access to a huge helping more of physical damage reduction that you're forced to give up for a shield(for good reason, obviously).

[Seraph]

Outside of Sentinel(which is admittedly powerful), I really don't see how Paladin has any edge in survivability. Shield blocking is nice, but its primary purpose(these days, anyway) is to allow you to get shadows back up, which is a complete non issue for a Red Mage. Also, lets not forget the mileage of a 410 Stoneskin that we can constantly reapply if necessary.

As far as flat-out pummeling goes, the difference isn't as significant as you'd think. Shield blocks help tremendously, but we still operate on a slightly stronger Phalanx, and have access to a huge helping more of physical damage reduction that you're forced to give up for a shield(for good reason, obviously).

He said survivability, not necessarily damage reduction. I've seen (and performed) both RDM and PLD tanking now, and my experience (assuming both are /NIN) is that RDM gets a distinct edge on hate generation, and PLD gets a distinct edge for survivability. It's generally not as obvious unless shit hits the fan. You mentioned Shield Blocking and Shield Mastery already, but you failed to mention flash, which can sometimes be a huge help in getting shadows back up. Convert is now often matched by Chivalry as well, which also used to be a huge boost for RDM long term tanking.