Random PLD Questions

[Thorny]

You're talking about flash to get shadows up when RDM can ichi between attack rounds on pretty much anything, even without debuffs?

Regarding survivability vs damage reduction, PLD wins out in damage reduction. However, shield blocks aren't guaranteed.. -50% physical damage is. I don't see how you can make a case for PLD having better survivability when their primary damage mitigation with shadows down is reliant on a dice roll <_< They'll take less damage over time, but an unblocked tourb or a triple->TP from byakko or <insert other rough physical damage here> can kill a PLD much easier than it can a RDM.

[Seraph]

You're talking about flash to get shadows up when RDM can ichi between attack rounds on pretty much anything, even without debuffs?

Highly situational based on the mob. I've seen RDMs just have bad luck and shadows go down when elegy/slow wear off and it throws their timing. It's happened to me a few times as well, though I'm usually dicking around and half assing it lately when I tank. As far as 'more reliable damage reduction', I would take a Koenig shield over Earth staff any day, since the damage reduction over time usually comes out to something like 39.65% damage reduction over time with a capped block rate. For rounding purposes, let's say 39%.

[Thorny]

Highly situational based on the mob. I've seen RDMs just have bad luck and shadows go down when elegy/slow wear off and it throws their timing. It's happened to me a few times as well, though I'm usually dicking around and half assing it lately when I tank.

it's not highly situational, ichi casttime with af head and af2 body is less than almost any mob's delay without debuffs, getting interrupted frequently is just poor tanking

[Seraph]

it's not highly situational, ichi casttime with af head and af2 body is less than almost any mob's delay without debuffs, getting interrupted frequently is just poor tanking

I don't have the body, just a moderate haste set. I usually depend on loading up on haste where applicable to just keep the recasts short enough to prevent problems. Sometimes though, like I said, DA/TAs happen, and it throws off your rhythm. More recently though I think I am the victim of lag spikes because it always seems like my Send/Receive starts going nuts when i screw up. I'm not going to play the 'I am the ultimate tanking' card, because I'm definitely not. When tanking I am usually 99% of the time on PLD anyways, and have only recently starting screwing around with RDM tanking to see how the other half lives.

I was always used to being able to count on a flash, and more recently a shield block, to get back into the flow. It was usually more of an issue where you couldn't wait until the next swing cycle to cast. Ultima in bitch mode comes to mind. Getting interrupted and then getting a DA or a TP move can potentially spell death there, so riding out the next hit might not always be an option.

[Thorny]

Ultima in bitch mode comes to mind. Getting interrupted and then getting a DA or a TP move can potentially spell death there, so riding out the next hit might not always be an option.

If you have a decent -damage set and tanking food, no it can't spell death >_>

[Max™]

While Rdm's are fucking bricks when shit hits the fan, and have the superspeed casting + SS + Phal + Utsu shit.

Neo is probably pretty damn survivable, between his gear, and the fact that he isn't a goddamn fucking retardbaby aegis pld who thinks they don't need shield skill ever, in any situation, especially not for Ichi, would help.

[Thorny]

While Rdm's are fucking bricks when shit hits the fan, and have the superspeed casting + SS + Phal + Utsu shit.

Neo is probably pretty damn survivable, between his gear, and the fact that he isn't a goddamn fucking retardbaby aegis pld who thinks they don't need shield skill ever, in any situation, especially not for Ichi, would help.

Comparing neo to an average RDM tank is silly, as he's one of the best PLDs here. Compare to a RDM tank with equal quality gear and I'd bet anything the RDM has better survivability(though both are superfluous for anything besides AV).

[Tsuko_Asura]

EDIT: Didn't realize there was a page three, my issues have already been addressed.

[Max™]

I wasn't saying otherwise, just that Pld's, especially smart Aegis ones, are really fuckin tough.

I know Cerb isn't that hard, but my bud is a smart Aegis Pld, and I got called out to help them kill Cerb because he was kicking it's ass with atonement and a couple mages.

Was pretty epic coming up to see him vs the doggie, was my first real Cerb fight, and for some reason my first impression was that Cerb was a lot smaller compared to my friend.

I personally have seen the random ass byakko hax shit... tanking that tiger gives me nightmares.

Cotank gets hate just as I lose shadows (whew) > Ichi up > triple into me > Ni up > Claw cyclone > Triple.

<Me> Oh! My arm came off!
<Me> I can't believe that happened!

[Seraph]

If you have a decent -damage set and tanking food, no it can't spell death >_>

I've seen Wire Cutter mess a few people up at a bad time (as an example) so yeah it definitely can. My Limbus co-tank has been struck down with a crit DA --> Wire Cutter when he had one shadow up and was in the middle of a recast. I know it's happened more than once too in the few years we have been doing it. It's rare, sure, but it happens. You can call it bad tanking, but sometimes it's just a combination of lag and bad timing. Unless your casting set always has def down gear in it, there is definitely a small risk. I usually favor haste over damage reduction in my normal recast macros.

I personally have seen the random ass byakko hax shit... tanking that tiger gives me nightmares.

Also this. I was seriously considering meriting Crit- for a long time just because I've been either torn up a few times by a poorly timed TA --> WS on that damn cat.

[Spekkio]

it's just about slot, main sub range slots swap will loose tp, ammo slot wont

instrument goes in ranged, not ammo and does not cause loss of tp when swapped. your rule is close to correct, but not completely, which is why i gave my explanation. unless i'm missing something though, for anyone who's not a brd, your rule is accurate.

[Neosutra]

As for the "dice roll with shield block", I agree there are times when this can spell disaster if the mob decides to use that triple-attack crit hit suck move right then w/o any shield blocks, and I cant count the number of times ive yelled "FUCKING BLOCK YOU PIECE OF SHIT MOTHERFUCKING SHIELD" and scared my dog after aegis goes 9 attack rounds w/o a block or something stupid (with capped shield skill).

However, a good pld should be making use of their damage down sets in these cases. I assume most tanks have "terror" or stun sets, for moves that wipe shadows and prevent them from recasting them, as well as a mix of damage reduct/shield skill gear for those other oshi times.

I use ACP body, loq. earring, homam legs for fast cast for start of spell.
Valor legs(10%), pld JSE earring(lvl70, 30%), spellcast puts in when low hp), knightly earring, 9% moon sash 8% for 27-57% less interupt in mid cast
Then shield skill + in other spots helps close into cap (based on mob lvl) for a max of 65% interupt.
And haste at the close of the spell for recast.
Add in shadow mantle for ~9% interupt, and you have a pretty damn good chance of getting shadows back up.

I know the shield skill block, interupt rate down, and shadow mantle dont stack (you can have shadow mantle proc on a shield block, so the 3 do have some redundant overlap). But you are talking about significantly lowering the "dice roll" of shield tanking.

So if the pld has a good full damage down oshi set, and a well thought out ichi shield skill/interupt set, I dont really see a rdm keeping up in the area of survivability.

I havent had many good rdm cotanks (if any), so Im prepared to eat my words, but I think a top tiered pld would always win against a top tiered rdm. Now a mediocre pld vs a mediocre rdm, that would be a different argument.

And ya.. even as a well geared Aegis pld, ive had old Byakko open with diaga -> triple attack crit hit and lvl me in the first 5 seconds of popping. Took me a few moments to realize what just happened.. Laughed a little then went and got a beer.

[Tsuko_Asura]

One thing that always pisses me off about Red Mage tanks is that they never utilize Death Blossom. Personally, I discovered that tacos were pretty unnecessary for most fights, and started popping sushi and carrying around my TP set and Joyeuse so I could open Light for Atonement.

[ClarkSammich]

That's pretty interesting, what weapons did you use? Joyeuse + Genbu shield or other?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Joy/Justice, needed a Piano Minuet for reliability, though.

[Andradi]

I think Callisto mentioned that in his RDM guide. Something I've been wondering...

Is it possible with a top tier haste/FC set (AF hat, AF2 Body, Loq, Dusk hands/feet, nashira legs, swift belt) and a march or 2 to cap shadow recasts even with composure up?

[Thorny]

I think Callisto mentioned that in his RDM guide. Something I've been wondering...

Is it possible with a top tier haste/FC set (AF hat, AF2 Body, Loq, Dusk hands/feet, nashira legs, swift belt) and a march or 2 to cap shadow recasts even with composure up?

With double march, it's close but not capped. There's no good reason to fulltime composure though, just use it and do haste/refresh/phalanx every 7:30 then cancel it. Meleeing for death blossom is pretty stupid on anything bigger, if mob TP isn't a concern tell some other melee to open for atonement.

[Max™]

One thing that always pisses me off about Red Mage tanks is that they never utilize Death Blossom. Personally, I discovered that tacos were pretty unnecessary for most fights, and started popping sushi and carrying around my TP set and Joyeuse so I could open Light for Atonement.

I've been saying for a while.

You want to melee, Mr. Rdm?

Figure out how to do it while tanking, and I don't give a fuck at that point.

[Grey Jorildyn]

The sadness in all this is that a relic PLD is always compared to simply a well-geared RDM tank that does not require a relic at all to tank really well. The skill factor is certainly the largest piece of the puzzle, but the fact that a RDM doesn't need to invest 100mil gil into an item to tank at the highest tier brings a tear to my eye.

[Spekkio]

i'm kinda curious that you mention a spell interruption cap (at least if i read it right) when i thought in another thread it was shown likely that no such cap existed. also, do you find the +12 shield skill to be superior to the 15% interruption rate down of the Karasutengu Kogake? i would think from a damage mitigation perspective ofc the af+1 shoes would be superior, but to attempt to ensure your utsu ichi resolved i would think the 15% shoes would be a better choice.

spell interruption down gear is something i've actually been investigating and for pld w/o hitting latent or twiddling shield/weapon slot for obvious reasons, i believe i found you could hit 47% down and 77% when the earring is on. what's more interesting though is that on rdm/nin (though you would lose TP so situational as everything is) you could reach 100% interruption down (i forget what i used as my estimate for aquaveil in that figure though) and still keep on enough haste/fast cast gear to get a 50% reduction on recast time and still maintain your full 42% casting time reduction. not having the gear to do it myself on rdm i'm curious if anyone else has tried an interruption down build with any success, how it's worked, or if it's just been more trouble than its worth.