Few Kirin Questions

[Chantal]

1) What is Kirin's AGI/EVA if known? If not, what accuracy would a melee have to shoot for to be able to consitently hit him?

2) I highly doubt this, but I know its possible to despawn helper monsters for other NMs and such, is it possible to despawn Kirin's pets in any way? Again I highly doubt it but never seen it tried so you never know.

3) What earth resistance is needed to consistantly resist his spells? Similar to fire on Tiamat or harder to resist? Or ideally, easier.

4) What can be done to survive his AF? Just stack MDT-%? Iheard that MDB doesn't help with AF but not sure.

and 5) How much HP/ATK/DEF/EVA do his pets have compared to their normal counterparts, speficially, how hard would it be for a handful of BLM to zerg him down (manafont and all)?

[Thorny]

1) What is Kirin's AGI/EVA if known? If not, what accuracy would a melee have to shoot for to be able to consitently hit him?

Unknown. About 530-550 accuracy to cap hitrate, estimating. I would highly recommend TP burning, in which case the 2x soul voice madrigal + feint makes hitrate irrelevant.

2) I highly doubt this, but I know its possible to despawn helper monsters for other NMs and such, is it possible to despawn Kirin's pets in any way? Again I highly doubt it but never seen it tried so you never know.

Impossible. They walk to the spawnpoint, then if Kirin is alive, they assist him.

3) What earth resistance is needed to consistantly resist his spells? Similar to fire on Tiamat or harder to resist? Or ideally, easier.

Similar. However, there's very little point in bothering with a resist build. If you are kiting, you should be outrunning all of the -gas. If you're straight tanking, you need a MDMG setup anyway for whirlwind/sandstorm, and if you're zerging it doesn't matter at all.

4) What can be done to survive his AF? Just stack MDT-%? Iheard that MDB doesn't help with AF but not sure.

Cast shell. Nothing short of a taru SMN or BLM will be one shotted with shell up, unless he rolls searing light(in my experience this will always take out a few people).

5) How much HP/ATK/DEF/EVA do his pets have compared to their normal counterparts, speficially, how hard would it be for a handful of BLM to zerg him down (manafont and all)?

They seem to have around 10k, possibly a bit less. Seiryu and Genbu can be manaburned, using binds between nukes on Seiryu. Suzaku and Byakko would likely kill your BLMs, as there isn't any easy way to deal with them once you have hate. All debuffs stick significantly easier than on the real ones though, so they aren't that bad to tank(though they do full damage in my experience).

[Chantal]

Unknown. About 530-550 accuracy to cap hitrate, estimating. I would highly recommend TP burning, in which case the 2x soul voice madrigal + feint makes hitrate irrelevant.

So meleeing him in a non-TPburn situation isn't worthwhile? The goal here is to do Kirin with as few people as possible, hopefully down to just 6.

Impossible. They walk to the spawnpoint, then if Kirin is alive, they assist him.

Figured as much.

Similar. However, there's very little point in bothering with a resist build. If you are kiting, you should be outrunning all of the -gas. If you're straight tanking, you need a MDMG setup anyway for whirlwind/sandstorm, and if you're zerging it doesn't matter at all.

This would have been for straight tanking with SAM/NINs. But if you need ~530 EVA to cap then we'd be doing it kited.

Cast shell. Nothing short of a taru SMN or BLM will be one shotted with shell up, unless he rolls searing light(in my experience this will always take out a few people).

I though so, MDB doesn't help it though?

They seem to have around 10k, possibly a bit less. Seiryu and Genbu can be manaburned, using binds between nukes on Seiryu. Suzaku and Byakko would likely kill your BLMs, as there isn't any easy way to deal with them once you have hate.

So you don't think a few BLM/NINs and 1 RDM/NIN could do it in 3 mins? Normal Byakko can be straight tanked by a BLM/NIN with only 3 stuns, and normal Suzaku is soloable by RDM/NIN, so I'm not worried about either of them alone, its just both together. Seiryu and Genbu I'm not worried about.

My plan was, to start out with RDM/NIN RDM/NIN BRD/NIN BLM/NIN BLM/NIN BLM/WHM (the BLM/WHM would be nuking with some enmity- gear instead of damage+ gear to assure they don't pull hate). One RDM/NIN would kite Kirin around while he summons. When he summons Genbu, the BRD would take Genbu and kite him around (without trying to kill). If he summoned Suzaku, the second RDM would take and hold/DoT it. Byakko and Suzaku are the 2 I'm worried about. I'm hoping that 3 BLM/NINs and the RDM/NIN all using their 2h's would be able to kill it before he was able to summon again, thus preventing him from having both of them out at once.

Let's say he summoned Seiryu > Genbu > Suzaku > Byakko which would probably be the worst order he could summon in. A RDM would hold Seiryu, the BRD would hold Genbu, the BLMs would gank Suzaku as fast as possible then get their MP back and then try and kill Byakko before wiping, if necessary the BRD would be able to sac Byakko/Genbu while BLMs recovered. Then the BLMs and RDM would finish off Suzaku, then Genbu.

Afterwards, I'm not sure how to go about killing Kirin. I don't know if 4 SMNs are enough, or if 4 BLMs are better (all of which are capable of kiting when they pull hate), or if 2 SAM/NIN, WHM, BRD, RDM, COR would be the best setup. Trying to figure it out though, but it sounds like RDM BRD BLMx4 would be best.

We're fully capable of going back to town, changing jobs, then going back up to Kirin to kill as well. We obviously wouldn't attempt at a time where people would be waiting to pop.

[Sephknight]

So meleeing him in a non-TPburn situation isn't worthwhile? The goal here is to do Kirin with as few people as possible, hopefully down to just 6.

Thats not posible,the dd´s would have to shine to an extend they would have hate all the time and die,even with best players in game this is literally imposible to narrow down to 6 people, even for just kirin w-o putin the summons into the equation, You can melee it fine in a not burn situation, hell lately i only take sams, drks and rng, dont even bother with any magic apart from dots.

This would have been for straight tanking with SAM/NINs. But if you need ~530 EVA to cap then we'd be doing it kited.

Im not sure if u have a lot of experience with kirin, im guessing no,sam/nins wont last long, AT ALL, unless they runing for their lifes as soon as they have hate.

The way kirin atacks is usually a consecutive TP move spam, then a cast, then a consecutive spam of breath-wind- or such that goes threw shadows,i stright tank it on pld, and w-o the proper support, i wouldnt last.

I though so, MDB doesn't help it though?

It does, but AF is not a big deal, stonega is,just try to keep everyone at full hp and u wont wype to AF, only those tarus with small hp pool will fall, stonega on the other hand is deadly, this can be avoided by runing of , but if ur at melee range have to be fast.Altought when i stright tank with an alliance hiting it, i just eat it since more people less dmg ,and even solo with MDB set it only does as much 1.6kish unresisted like 90ish % of my hp.

So you don't think a few BLM/NINs and 1 RDM/NIN could do it in 3 mins? Normal Byakko can be straight tanked by a BLM/NIN with only 3 stuns, and normal Suzaku is soloable by RDM/NIN, so I'm not worried about either of them alone, its just both together. Seiryu and Genbu I'm not worried about.

My plan was, to start out with RDM/NIN RDM/NIN BRD/NIN BLM/NIN BLM/NIN BLM/WHM (the BLM/WHM would be nuking with some enmity- gear instead of damage+ gear to assure they don't pull hate). One RDM/NIN would kite Kirin around while he summons. When he summons Genbu, the BRD would take Genbu and kite him around (without trying to kill). If he summoned Suzaku, the second RDM would take and hold/DoT it. Byakko and Suzaku are the 2 I'm worried about. I'm hoping that 3 BLM/NINs and the RDM/NIN all using their 2h's would be able to kill it before he was able to summon again, thus preventing him from having both of them out at once.

Let's say he summoned Seiryu > Genbu > Suzaku > Byakko which would probably be the worst order he could summon in. A RDM would hold Seiryu, the BRD would hold Genbu, the BLMs would gank Suzaku as fast as possible then get their MP back and then try and kill Byakko before wiping, if necessary the BRD would be able to sac Byakko/Genbu while BLMs recovered. Then the BLMs and RDM would finish off Suzaku, then Genbu.

Afterwards, I'm not sure how to go about killing Kirin. I don't know if 4 SMNs are enough, or if 4 BLMs are better (all of which are capable of kiting when they pull hate), or if 2 SAM/NIN, WHM, BRD, RDM, COR would be the best setup. Trying to figure it out though, but it sounds like RDM BRD BLMx4 would be best.

We're fully capable of going back to town, changing jobs, then going back up to Kirin to kill as well. We obviously wouldn't attempt at a time where people would be waiting to pop.

This wont work, for so many reasons, kirin is easy, but not THAT easy,
First of all u wont put enough dmg to dent him at all with just 6 people ,
As for summons u will be overwhelmed,the point is to only have 1, 2 at most of the summons out, the atack power of the summons is equal of the normal gods,and the way u put it is to manaburn them all , im assuming bind- time nuke ? ur gonna run out of mp before 1 of them is dead.


Also be aware if they return to kirin, they will atack the person kitin kirin, and kill them.So that brd death pulling idea is no good eighter,

I can go on for many other reasons this wont work,But my best sugestion is to get more people,get rid of the blms and get 2 merit burn parties, maybe 1 tank or 2 if u whant to be comfortable, and 1 kirin party ,

kirin party can be narrowed down to just 1 person , altought i dont recomend this eighter, as mistakes happends.

[Chantal]

Firstly, your writing is kinda hard to read/understand...

Secondly, I have plenty of experience with Kirin, and I've seen him straight tanked before. I've seen plenty of TP spam... when we have a ton of melees hitting him all at once. This situation only has 2 (if we went the melee route). In addition, the idea would be for the SAMs to have hate. If some of the PLDs and NINs I've seen straight tank Kirin could handle it, I'm sure a very well geared SAM/NIN could too.

Lastly, if I wanted to just kill Kirin I'd do it with 12+ people like you said. That's not the point. I already have all the gear I want off him, and most of my friends do too, we just wanna try and do something extremely challenging and fun, and this is what we're currently looking into.

To be honest, do we think we can pull it off? No. In fact, we know we can't with our current gear. But it's something we'd like to try anyways. If we got close, then, get better gear, perfect the strategy, do it again, hopefully win. It'd just be something for us to enjoy, and to have bragging rights over. Not everything is done just to get the best gear/highest gil the fastest.

[Thorny]

So meleeing him in a non-TPburn situation isn't worthwhile? The goal here is to do Kirin with as few people as possible, hopefully down to just 6.

With 6, it's not worthwhile. If you can afford at least a BRD for your melee, it's better than magic damage.

This would have been for straight tanking with SAM/NINs. But if you need ~530 EVA to cap then we'd be doing it kited.

I'm not entirely sure why you care about EVA?

I though so, MDB doesn't help it though?

It's not what you should be worrying about. It might, it might not, but astral flow is the least of your problems trying to 6man kirin.

So you don't think a few BLM/NINs and 1 RDM/NIN could do it in 3 mins? Normal Byakko can be straight tanked by a BLM/NIN with only 3 stuns, and normal Suzaku is soloable by RDM/NIN, so I'm not worried about either of them alone, its just both together. Seiryu and Genbu I'm not worried about.

Triple attack can kill a BLM in one round. If they don't trade hate properly, they'll die very quickly and your run will be over. It's feasible though..

My plan was, to start out with RDM/NIN RDM/NIN BRD/NIN BLM/NIN BLM/NIN BLM/WHM (the BLM/WHM would be nuking with some enmity- gear instead of damage+ gear to assure they don't pull hate). One RDM/NIN would kite Kirin around while he summons. When he summons Genbu, the BRD would take Genbu and kite him around (without trying to kill). If he summoned Suzaku, the second RDM would take and hold/DoT it. Byakko and Suzaku are the 2 I'm worried about. I'm hoping that 3 BLM/NINs and the RDM/NIN all using their 2h's would be able to kill it before he was able to summon again, thus preventing him from having both of them out at once.
Let's say he summoned Seiryu > Genbu > Suzaku > Byakko which would probably be the worst order he could summon in. A RDM would hold Seiryu, the BRD would hold Genbu, the BLMs would gank Suzaku as fast as possible then get their MP back and then try and kill Byakko before wiping, if necessary the BRD would be able to sac Byakko/Genbu while BLMs recovered. Then the BLMs and RDM would finish off Suzaku, then Genbu.

The BRD won't be able to sac byakko before it kills the kiter. If Byakko is out on his own for more than 15 seconds, your kiter is already dead.

Afterwards, I'm not sure how to go about killing Kirin. I don't know if 4 SMNs are enough, or if 4 BLMs are better (all of which are capable of kiting when they pull hate), or if 2 SAM/NIN, WHM, BRD, RDM, COR would be the best setup. Trying to figure it out though, but it sounds like RDM BRD BLMx4 would be best.

We're fully capable of going back to town, changing jobs, then going back up to Kirin to kill as well. We obviously wouldn't attempt at a time where people would be waiting to pop.

It has roughly 150% movement speed. If your BLMs are frequently kiting, they'll get hit with sleepga and raped. The same may apply to whoever is holding it while people change jobs. You can use poison potions, but it still gives him enough time to get a tp move off usually :/ 4 SMNs using nether blast at timer would be able to slowly kill it, provided your kiter never got killed.

[Thorny]

Firstly, your writing is kinda hard to read/understand...

Ignore him, all the other intelligent posters do.

Secondly, I have plenty of experience with Kirin, and I've seen him straight tanked before. I've seen plenty of TP spam... when we have a ton of melees hitting him all at once. This situation only has 2 (if we went the melee route). In addition, the idea would be for the SAMs to have hate. If some of the PLDs and NINs I've seen straight tank Kirin could handle it, I'm sure a very well geared SAM/NIN could too.

The tp spam is irrelevant to the amount of melee hitting it. With none, while kiting, it still uses a tp move whenever it gets in range. A well geared SAM/NIN could indeed tank Kirin, but they would eventually die to sleepga->TP move.

Lastly, if I wanted to just kill Kirin I'd do it with 12+ people like you said. That's not the point. I already have all the gear I want off him, and most of my friends do too, we just wanna try and do something extremely challenging and fun, and this is what we're currently looking into.

To be honest, do we think we can pull it off? No. In fact, we know we can't with our current gear. But it's something we'd like to try anyways. If we got close, then, get better gear, perfect the strategy, do it again, hopefully win. It'd just be something for us to enjoy, and to have bragging rights over. Not everything is done just to get the best gear/highest gil the fastest.

Good Luck.

[Sephknight]

Ignore him, all the other intelligent posters do.

Good Luck.

You sir are an idiot,


I posted my input about his question, And we both agree bout the same.
This is literally impossible to do.
But you like to pick up fights becouse i cant explain it as well as you , or so it seems.

If you have a problem with me personally i will gladly discuss it on pms.
Good Luck.

[Sephknight]

Firstly, your writing is kinda hard to read/understand...

Secondly, I have plenty of experience with Kirin, and I've seen him straight tanked before. I've seen plenty of TP spam... when we have a ton of melees hitting him all at once. This situation only has 2 (if we went the melee route). In addition, the idea would be for the SAMs to have hate. If some of the PLDs and NINs I've seen straight tank Kirin could handle it, I'm sure a very well geared SAM/NIN could too.

Lastly, if I wanted to just kill Kirin I'd do it with 12+ people like you said. That's not the point. I already have all the gear I want off him, and most of my friends do too, we just wanna try and do something extremely challenging and fun, and this is what we're currently looking into.

To be honest, do we think we can pull it off? No. In fact, we know we can't with our current gear. But it's something we'd like to try anyways. If we got close, then, get better gear, perfect the strategy, do it again, hopefully win. It'd just be something for us to enjoy, and to have bragging rights over. Not everything is done just to get the best gear/highest gil the fastest.

I try to explain to the best of my abilities in a foreing language so sorry for that,

The main problem i see with the diference between sam tankin , on a lowman like u said, is that when u have hate u cant put in damage, so someone would have to tank regardless, better to have a real one.
By no means im telling u to not try this, hell if u can do it that be awsome, I bet it would be hella fun, i just dont think is posible to win.
Is my opinion anyways,
Best of luck.

Ninja edit;

I've seen plenty of TP spam... when we have a ton of melees hitting him all at once

He spams tp , even if u have 0 melee on him, if thats what u mean to say,and in quick succesion,

[Chantal]

Yeah I meant to say ACC not EVA up there <.< my bad.

Also, I've personally witnessed a RDM/NIN solo-kite kiring for more than an hour before it died (I was DDing on SMN). So I figured that'd be difficult but possible.

I've also seen 1 BLM/NIN solo tank big byakko, again with only 3 stuns and a pretty good dmg taken -% set (terra's/umbra/jelly/earring), so I figured that'd be possible too.

Didn't realize about sac'ing byakko... I thought it walked at the same speed as everything else once deaggro'd?

Ignoring summons, you think (kiter, like PLD BLU RDM etc) RDM/NIN (backup kiter/refresh/cures) SMN x4 could kill him then?

EDIT: about the BRD for your melee thing, our theoretical setup for kirin himself was looking to be something like SAM SAM RDM BRD WHM (6th) with the 6th being something like COR, DRK, or maybe SMN

[Thorny]

Also, I've personally witnessed a RDM/NIN solo-kite kiring for more than an hour before it died (I was DDing on SMN). So I figured that'd be difficult but possible.

It's not really about difficulty. Kiting Kirin is very simple, but if a sleepga goes off at a bad time you're very likely to die(deadly hold will one shot you, tail smash binds long enough for it to do another tp even if you have a quick erase).. poison pots still need to do a click to wake you up.

I've also seen 1 BLM/NIN solo tank big byakko, again with only 3 stuns and a pretty good dmg taken -% set (terra's/umbra/jelly/earring), so I figured that'd be possible too.

I've died to byakko from one triple attack -> WS while wearing -50% phys damage and around 1400 HP. It was a fluke shot, but it's still a risk to keep in mind.

Didn't realize about sac'ing byakko... I thought it walked at the same speed as everything else once deaggro'd?

All mobs have reduced speed when deaggroed, though having about 200% movement speed it'll run about twice as fast back to the ???. Once it hits that, it goes full speed and instant-rapes your kiter.

Ignoring summons, you think (kiter, like PLD BLU RDM etc) RDM/NIN (backup kiter/refresh/cures) SMN x4 could kill him then?

Yes, provided no major errors were made. It would be an extremely long fight.

EDIT: about the BRD for your melee thing, our theoretical setup for kirin himself was looking to be something like SAM SAM RDM BRD WHM (6th) with the 6th being something like COR, DRK, or maybe SMN

SAMs will die to sleepga->WS or AF->WS eventually, then you're pretty much boned.

[Yugl]

I don't know if this is feasible for you, but if you can, bring an outsider with sky on a LV1 class. If shit happens, you can use them to constant aggro kirin (One healing able to repeat R1s on the mule) while other PT members heal.

[ByeByeTasai]

Also, I've personally witnessed a RDM/NIN solo-kite kiring for more than an hour before it died (I was DDing on SMN). So I figured that'd be difficult but possible.

Kirin is extremely easy to kite. I've tanked him on RNG(old days, no +movement speed for the majority of the battle) and NIN countlesss times and really only ever died to Astral Flow when shitty whms can't keep shell up, or a lag spike.

The pets are your main problem with low man strategies on Kirin. You just won't be able to kill them fast enough with 12 people, mostly BLMs, without stacking up multiple pets at once.

If you can get past the pets, enough damage to beat his regen is all you need to finish him off. Kirin "himself" is the easiest sky God if you ask me just because he spams TP moves, casts spells that take forever to go off, and is in the biggest kiting circle in the game.

[Thorny]

Semi-necro, but did Kirin with 8 yesterday:
Setup for adds:
THF/WHM
BRD/NIN

RDM/NIN
BLM/WHM
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM*

Each add was pulled by the RDM and immediately CFHed, the SMNs synced blood pacts for Byakko/Seiryu so they could be bound in between. Genbu was a joke, of course.. and Suzaku was straight tanked for most of the fight and gravity kited during 2hr. The BRD popped Kirin with no actions done so they could kite hate free and elegied adds when possible(during casts or after heat breath), THF supported. The reasoning behind this was kind of silly, but it allowed for the THF to assist the kiter afterwards and the BRD to stay in the party with the damage dealers for ballads, as opposed to the THF becoming worthless and needing to toss someone in with the kiter for erase anyway.

Kill Setup

RDM/NIN
THF/WHM

BLM/WHM
BRD/NIN
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM
PUP/WHM*

If you replace the BRD/NIN with an additional RDM/NIN and suck up not having TH, it could theoretically be done with 7.. which means there is some possibility somewhere for your 6-man dreams.

*Neoki/Abunai are 2 characters on the same Playonline account. The person playing them wanted to compare PUP damage to SMN damage on kited kirin, so they logged their PUP character out there before bringing their SMN up. They switched over after adds were done, and outparsed the SMNs by a tiny bit, but for all intents and purposes the 4th SMN staying would work fine for this setup.

Spoiler: show

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/271...5theshrine.jpg

[Ratatapa]

how long did it took at 8 people?

just curious

[Thorny]

It took around 90-100 minutes start to finish. If we do it again with the same setup, we feel we can narrow it down to ~70.

[Saxon]

Just wondering what setup the Pup used? I know a Pup main who I can try and force to come to Kirin lol

[Thorny]

Honestly, I don't know off the top of my head. They tried both spellcasting puppet and a melee one, I'll have to ask them which performed better.

[Ratatapa]

iirc on a kited kirin the melee one will be the best for the pups

[Darkdoom]

Semi-necro, but did Kirin with 8 yesterday:
Setup for adds:
THF/WHM
BRD/NIN

RDM/NIN
BLM/WHM
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM*

Each add was pulled by the RDM and immediately CFHed, the SMNs synced blood pacts for Byakko/Seiryu so they could be bound in between. Genbu was a joke, of course.. and Suzaku was straight tanked for most of the fight and gravity kited during 2hr. The BRD popped Kirin with no actions done so they could kite hate free and elegied adds when possible(during casts or after heat breath), THF supported. The reasoning behind this was kind of silly, but it allowed for the THF to assist the kiter afterwards and the BRD to stay in the party with the damage dealers for ballads, as opposed to the THF becoming worthless and needing to toss someone in with the kiter for erase anyway.

Kill Setup

RDM/NIN
THF/WHM

BLM/WHM
BRD/NIN
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM
SMN/WHM
PUP/WHM*

If you replace the BRD/NIN with an additional RDM/NIN and suck up not having TH, it could theoretically be done with 7.. which means there is some possibility somewhere for your 6-man dreams.

*Neoki/Abunai are 2 characters on the same Playonline account. The person playing them wanted to compare PUP damage to SMN damage on kited kirin, so they logged their PUP character out there before bringing their SMN up. They switched over after adds were done, and outparsed the SMNs by a tiny bit, but for all intents and purposes the 4th SMN staying would work fine for this setup.

Spoiler: show

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/271...5theshrine.jpg

Damn well done, Edit: Read post above mine that apparently wasn't there 3 seconds ago.