Obama: The United States is "one of the largest Muslim countries in the world"

[Neosutra]

Blarg hit on the point, but the biblical jesus (im going to say the biblical jesus because I dont like saying "jesus said", as it attributes person-hood to a mythical creature) never said "just follow my ways". The biblical jesus specifically stated that "only through me shall you go to the kingdom".

There are several stories from the biblical depictions of jesus that I agree with:

Give unto ceaser (something most christians ignore)..

Love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, etc.

However, the biblical jesus doesnt hold a patent on humanitarianism, and these concepts (the golden rule for example) existed long before the stories of jesus came about. To add to this, we continue to come back to this core meaning of exclusivity.

This teaching that biblical jesus is and was the ONLY way to salvation, and that if you dont accept HIM as the one true god, then damned you are.

We've stated and restated it over and over, but Archi you know as well as anyone that such a psychosis as this was and is the main cause for much of the misery in this world. When an idealogy allows people to think that whatever they do is better than allowing someone to burn forever in eternal hellfires. When an idealogy allows people to think that they are the only "right" people in the eyes of the one true god. When an idealogy states that eternal peace and riches lay after death for only the believers.. Then you get the dogmas and fundamentalism we have seen in the last 1000 years of this planet.

How can you justify a few loose "lets hug each other" teachings for the massive damage caused by the heaven/hell/damnation psychosis?

[Demosthenes11]

don't you preach the same thing?
Either accept religion as a horrible thing or the world is damned to destroy itself?

[kuronosan]

I think any religion teaches inner peace and loving your neighbor, etc, etc. I used to go to a Catholic parish where there was a mural on the wall that showed every major religion reciting that line over and over. Buddhist, Taoist, all religions advocate being a good human being and living a peaceful life.

It's what is contained within the books that people take literally. People read the Bible saying "If you don't believe in me you don't have a place in paradise and heaven" and interpret it to mean "let's shove our beliefs down your throats and kill all infidels" and unfortunately most religious radicals do the same thing. It's amusing, to say the least.

I think religion is and always has been a terrific idea to provide a centerpiece of faith and a reason to focus on harmony... unfortunately since we are human and as such there are many who are just plain greedy and manipulative, that will never happen.

It's one of the many reasons I stopped attending church. People don't want harmony, they want uniformity. That's just something I can't agree with. I'd much rather worship, pray, or believe in my own time and space. Why should I have to prove to someone else that I believe?

Theoretically, if Jesus really was the son of God and not just a man like all of us are, he should therefore already know I believe since he is all knowing. He should see when I am truly sorry since he is all-seeing. Finally, the Jesus I know would never condone killing other people over a belief. Unfortunately, I was required to confess what I had done wrong since another person has to tell Jesus for me. I was required to profess my beliefs with others since apparently doing so strengthens my bond with Jesus.

Please. Jesus is far from a joke but I really think it funny that more people idolize him than God and then hide behind the "Well Jesus really is God" thing. Why worship the son more than the father? And if he was God incarnate and not really Jesus, then what was the point of sending a man down when thousands of years earlier the same God was talking through a burning bush?

Fuck radical zealots.

[Zilong]

The god of the old testament is like the worst fucking deity to ever put your faith in.

[BRP]

The god of the old testament is like the worst fucking deity to ever put your faith in.

Yeah well if you want Pussy bitch god, ignore that one.

[Howard Roark]

I'm pretty sure the foreward for the bible freely admits you can selectively believe the parts you don't like and make your own religion with the leftover lego piecesscriptures

[Plow]

Blarg hit on the point, but the biblical jesus (im going to say the biblical jesus because I dont like saying "jesus said", as it attributes person-hood to a mythical creature) never said "just follow my ways". The biblical jesus specifically stated that "only through me shall you go to the kingdom".

There are several stories from the biblical depictions of jesus that I agree with:

Give unto ceaser (something most christians ignore)..

Love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, etc.

However, the biblical jesus doesnt hold a patent on humanitarianism, and these concepts (the golden rule for example) existed long before the stories of jesus came about. To add to this, we continue to come back to this core meaning of exclusivity.

This teaching that biblical jesus is and was the ONLY way to salvation, and that if you dont accept HIM as the one true god, then damned you are.

We've stated and restated it over and over, but Archi you know as well as anyone that such a psychosis as this was and is the main cause for much of the misery in this world. When an idealogy allows people to think that whatever they do is better than allowing someone to burn forever in eternal hellfires. When an idealogy allows people to think that they are the only "right" people in the eyes of the one true god. When an idealogy states that eternal peace and riches lay after death for only the believers.. Then you get the dogmas and fundamentalism we have seen in the last 1000 years of this planet.

How can you justify a few loose "lets hug each other" teachings for the massive damage caused by the heaven/hell/damnation psychosis?

Shut the fuck up and come back when you can make some kind of valid argument as to how believing in heaven and hell results in "psychosis" which will then make people kill and torture others.


And, no, "when an ideology allows you to think you're better" is not a fucking valid claim, people think they're superior to others even when they hate the idea of heaven and hell, as proven extremely thoroughly by *you*.

[Neosutra]

Shut the fuck up and come back when you can make some kind of valid argument as to how believing in heaven and hell results in "psychosis" which will then make people kill and torture others.


And, no, "when an ideology allows you to think you're better" is not a fucking valid claim, people think they're superior to others even when they hate the idea of heaven and hell, as proven extremely thoroughly by *you*.

lol Someone is a little cranky. Hit a soft spot?

History speaks for itself. It wasnt the "love your neighbor", or "turn the other cheek" that inspired the many religious wars and campaigns throughout time, or the church's oppression during/after the dark ages. It was the fundamental tenant that "no matter what we do, it is better than letting these people go to hell". It was the belief and idealogy that these people were the only "right" people, and were doing gods will by ensuring everyone else believed as they did, because only through jesus can you enter heaven.

Or perhaps Im wrong Plow: What part of christianity do you think was the catalyst for the wars/deaths/oppression?

[Correction]

History speaks for itself. It was the belief and idealogy that these people were the only "right" people, and were doing gods will by ensuring everyone else believed as they did, because only through jesus can you enter heaven.

Or perhaps Im wrong Plow: What part of christianity do you think was the catalyst for the wars/deaths/oppression?

What a retarded question. Did I not just earlier get you to admit that political ambition had as much and likely more to do with religiously justified conquest? "Gosh those guys over there sure have some primo real estate" has more convincingly been the catalyst and asking 'well heck if I see a cross on their banners what part of the bible told them to do that? HUH? HUH?'

You must believe it really was Columbus' goal to convert the indians in the new world, rather than pure greed for a colony.

[Neosutra]

I stated political gain shared the blame, however are you suggesting that religion had little or nothing to do with the religious wars in our history? If not, what about the basic social opression during those times enforced by the church? It's one thing to say religion wasn't the sole cause of these events, and quite another to say it didn't play a major factor.

[Correction]

You're looking for an over-simplistic answer. Look at your earlier question, it's designed to look for one and only one cause for death and suffering: something in religion. That's fucking bullshit and even you've said as much. All you're accomplishing with that is trolling Plow. Grats on hitting fish in a barrel with a cannonball. Less and less I accept your reasoning as a man of science and more as just a man out to fish for nerd rage.

[BRP]

Semantics

[Plow]

Your problems are with the church, and the people. Not with Jesus, not with Christianity.


Until you can provide a direct point where Jesus says "whatever you do to someone is not as bad as them going to hell," your entire argument is utter and complete bullshit.


You're making a jump, there is no tenet of Christianity that states "nothing you do to someone can be as bad as going to hell, so do whatever the hell you want."


Again and again and again, Jesus teaches against these things.


Give up, you have no argument for the claims you're trying to make, it's just willful closed-mindedness by some dumb kid that can't get over the fact that his parents made him go to church on Sundays and cockblocked him.

It's all good, you'll grow out of it one of these days.

[Seraph]

Your problems are with the church, and the people. Not with Jesus, not with Christianity.

I had a similar argument with him awhile ago, and he was spouting the same stuff. His peeve is most likely with the people who keep knocking on his door and trying to covert him. Either that, or the larger religious establishments, not the actual religion itself.

[Sady]

Guys, I just spoke to God herself! No seriously, she said "All ye who seeketh salvation from this thread, presseth now thy ATL+F4 keys together!". So I did and IT WAS GOOD!

Seriously! Don't believe me? Just because I was high as fuck and hallucinating on magic mushrooms doesn't mean it didn't happen. I even wrote a book about my experience so it HAS to be true!!! BRB spreading the word!

PS: give me money.

[Plow]

I had a similar argument with him awhile ago, and he was spouting the same stuff. His peeve is most likely with the people who keep knocking on his door and trying to covert him. Either that, or the larger religious establishments, not the actual religion itself.

It's most definitely a parental thing, it's really clear in the way he bases all his thinking around rebellion, to the point of the classic case of "non-conforming" so hard you conform by just doing the opposite, and conforming to the counter-culture entirely.

Guys, I just spoke to God herself! No seriously, she said "All ye who seeketh salvation from this thread, presseth now thy ATL+F4 keys together!". So I did and IT WAS GOOD!

Seriously! Don't believe me? Just because I was high as fuck and hallucinating on magic mushrooms doesn't mean it didn't happen. I even wrote a book about my experience so it HAS to be true!!! BRB spreading the word!

PS: give me money.

Point is here> O




















.................................................. .................................................. ........You are here > X

[Neosutra]

Wow, again atheism is really just people mad at their parents, did they teach you that in youth camp?. You are very much correct in saying I hold the religious establishment responsible for the atrocties. However, one must look at the tenants of said religion and the teachigs of its mythical founder to determine where these motivations come from. Do you REALLY believe that teaching people that your religion is the only way to heaven had no negative impact or influence on these atrocities?

[Plow]

Wow, again atheism is really just people mad at their parents, did they teach you that in youth camp?.

Who said anything about atheism? I'm talking about you.

Atheists don't all hate religion with an intense passion (the kind that drives people to kill over it, blaming it for all of the problems in the world), and they don't all hold immensely immature and closed-minded views of hating without being informed in any way shape or form.

You are very much correct in saying I hold the religious establishment responsible for the atrocties. However, one must look at the tenants of said religion and the teachigs of its mythical founder to determine where these motivations come from. Do you REALLY believe that teaching people that your religion is the only way to heaven had no negative impact or influence on these atrocities?

Can you name one way in which it could that Jesus didn't directly teach against?

[Neosutra]

Ya Plow, the "only through me shall you reach the kingdom of heaven". Keep ignoring that please, it is embarrassing.

Keep ignoring the fact that biblical jesus preached damnation for those that didnt accept him, and keep thinking people that think religion has had negative impacts on our species are all "just rebelling from our parents".

Or can you quote me the passage where biblical jesus stated "Believe what you want, for you can get to paradise through any religion, and you wont be damned to hell forever if you dont believe in me". Perhaps that passage was in one of the books left out.

Ill be waiting for your quote from biblical jesus on how other religions are A OK, and he wasnt the only way to avoid eternal hell fire.


"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference" Romans 3:22. - Only through biblical jesus can you be righteous in god.

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12

"He who is not with Me is against Me": Mathew 12:28 -Pretty fucking big one here champ.

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." - John 3:36

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." John 14:6

"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." - John 2:22-23. Not a statement directly from jesus, but you can see the mindset of these people. The "for me or against me" attitude.

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; " John 1-7:10 - Contiuing on their perception of non-believers.

Clearly Plow, biblical jesus was VERY "for me or against me". Your attempts to remove the exclusivity in the teachings and damage from the psychosis of heaven/hell/damnation philosophies show only your ignorance of the scriptures of which you subscribe your faith.

Shame you dont know your own religious text.

[Correction]

"I grant the son of men unlimited license to judge and kill others in my absence because they don't accept me as their savior" --Not in the Bible, 3:16

It is more than a little hilarious this is the one point you continue to evade.