Obama: The United States is "one of the largest Muslim countries in the world"

[Plow]

I'm glad you guys want to make sure the "hurr terrist" attitude stays under control and doesn't obstruct people's thinking.

[kuronosan]

Yea, we wouldn't want people to start thinking it's okay to murder someone because at least you're not doing it for religious reasons.

[Dimmauk]

Yeah cause Fear Mongering is so thought provoking. Nevermind the truth, lets make shit up so we can get more ratings, and/or site viewings.

[ZarakiKujata]

This is a prime example of why the world thinks America is clueless when it comes to the Muslim faith. Anyone who knows someone who reads the Quran faithfully will tell you it teaches nothing but non-aggression towards others and inner peace.

Any religion is violent when twisted by an extremist. Stereotyping half the world's population by the actions of a handful is beyond retarded. Try learning about people before you make such idiotic statements.

I have learned about the Quran and Islam precisely because I did not want to be clueless and stereotype the population based on the actions of extremists. I agree that for most muslims the religion is about inner peace and non-aggression as can be said for most Christians and Christianity as well. Historically as well I would say that a lot of Islamic countries have treated their Christian and Jewish minorities better than Christian countries have treated their Muslim minorities.

However, there are violent/discriminatory passages in the Quran, Bible, Book of Mormon, or what have you. Ignoring these passages is folly because they are still there, even if you choose to ignore them. And no matter how the religion is practiced in the mainstream, as long as the mainstream continues to rely on thousand year old books that helped create empires, caused injustice and discrimination, and death the religion will be violent. I didn't mean to single out Islam in particular but I think all organized religion is shit and it's just unfortunate for peaceful Muslims that they are discriminated against by ignorant Christians who are as ass backwards as their extremist Muslim counterparts.

[Plow]

Yea, we wouldn't want people to start thinking it's okay to murder someone because at least you're not doing it for religious reasons.

Oh, I get it, anything that's not terrorism is A-OK.


Makes perfect sense.

[kuronosan]

I'm doing my best to follow your logic.

[Cephius]

I have learned about the Quran and Islam precisely because I did not want to be clueless and stereotype the population based on the actions of extremists. I agree that for most muslims the religion is about inner peace and non-aggression as can be said for most Christians and Christianity as well. Historically as well I would say that a lot of Islamic countries have treated their Christian and Jewish minorities better than Christian countries have treated their Muslim minorities.

However, there are violent/discriminatory passages in the Quran, Bible, Book of Mormon, or what have you. Ignoring these passages is folly because they are still there, even if you choose to ignore them. And no matter how the religion is practiced in the mainstream, as long as the mainstream continues to rely on thousand year old books that helped create empires, caused injustice and discrimination, and death the religion will be violent. I didn't mean to single out Islam in particular but I think all organized religion is shit and it's just unfortunate for peaceful Muslims that they are discriminated against by ignorant Christians who are as ass backwards as their extremist Muslim counterparts.

Way to backtrack, I guess. You didn't mean to single out Islam? Then why the fuck did you say:

but by and large Islam is an inherently violent religion

???

You spoke exactly like one of those "ignorant Christians" would speak about Islam. Saying all organized religion is shit is one thing, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But singling out a couple religions and saying they are inherently violent is another thing all together (and completely wrong).

[Mizango]

Firas aggro inc...

Death to the infidels.

[Dimmauk]

Really all religions have a history of violence. I bet nobody can name a religion that has been completely non-violent.

[Tristam]

There are parts of the country that are have a higher percentage of muslim population than others, philly has a huge muslim community. It definately is a part of America that can't be ignored.

If Obama's guilty of anything, is slight hyperbole.

[Cephius]

Really all religions have a history of violence. I bet nobody can name a religion that has been completely non-violent.

There's a difference between having a violent history (as most religions do, as you say) and saying that anyone who follows a particular religion is more likely to be violent.

I'm not defending religion, because I'm sure more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. But saying that Muslims or Christians are more likely to kill people than anyone else is stupid. An extremist is an extremist, they'll find an excuse no matter who they are or what religion they follow.

[Plow]

I bet nobody can name a significant group of people that has been completely non-violent.

fix't

[ZarakiKujata]

Way to backtrack, I guess. You didn't mean to single out Islam? Then why the fuck did you say:

Way to ignore the rest of my first post? This thread is about Islam so I simply started by stating my belief on the matter, but since I think the same about Christianity and most other religions I qualified it with the other statements that I made. However, this thread is only tangentially about Christianity and other religions so perhaps thats why I did not start off by talking about Christianity and then Islam?

???

I said that because there are alot of violent Suras in the Koran AND violent passages in the Bible. Sure, the mainstream sects of the religion ignore them but they are still there in the text and I think that an unbiased observer who is only exposed to the text(s) of the religions would see the violence towards outsiders/nonbelievers, women, homosexuals, etc. that are inherent to the texts of these religions.

You spoke exactly like one of those "ignorant Christians" would speak about Islam. Saying all organized religion is shit is one thing, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But singling out a couple religions and saying they are inherently violent is another thing all together (and completely wrong).

If you read my first post you would see that Christianity and Islam are not really singled out since I said in the post I think that of most religions as well. I just listed them by name since those are the two religions I thought would come up in this thread and because I have learned more about Judeo-Christianity and Islam than I have about Hinduism or what have you. I don't see the difference between why its okay to merely say organized religion is bad and why its wrong to believe that two of them happen to be in large part because of the violence that can not be ignored in their basic texts.

and Plow: Jains have been completely nonviolent afaik?

[Plow]

and Plow: Jains have been completely nonviolent afaik?

Yeah I guess that would cover both my and the original statement.


afk becoming Jainist

[Meriandle]

Really all religions have a history of violence. I bet nobody can name a religion that has been completely non-violent.

It's more so that all people have a history of violence. It is pretty easy to read part of a scripture, interpret it poorly, and convince the other fools around you that it would be a good idea to go on a crusade. (Not YOU, but historically.)

The Qur'an and the Bible do have parts that speak of violence for one reason or another, but to say that they promote violence would be pretty misleading.

[Dimmauk]

and Plow: Jains have been completely nonviolent afaik?

Yeah I forgot about them.

[Plow]

It's more so that all people have a history of violence. It is pretty easy to read part of a scripture, interpret it poorly, and convince the other fools around you that it would be a good idea to go on a crusade. (Not YOU, but historically.)

The Qur'an and the Bible do have parts that speak of violence for one reason or another, but to say that they promote violence would be pretty misleading.

As Zara just pointed out, the religion of Jainism essentially is non-violence.


But, yeah, the literal interpretations account for a massive part of the misunderstandings of many religions, and it goes both ways. If you think Noah's ark was true, you're probably an idiot. If you think Noah's ark was supposed to be literal, you're probably just as big of an idiot.


And, fuck, I had to give up on Jainism after about 3 minutes because it doesn't allow "sentimental value."

[Dimmauk]

It's more so that all people have a history of violence. It is pretty easy to read part of a scripture, interpret it poorly, and convince the other fools around you that it would be a good idea to go on a crusade. (Not YOU, but historically.)

The Qur'an and the Bible do have parts that speak of violence for one reason or another, but to say that they promote violence would be pretty misleading.

Right, its when people start making their own interpretations to suit their causes. Then it becomes like the telephone game, and suddenly everyone believes only the interpretations.

[Elvis]

He also said that Iran has some legitimate nuclear energy ambitions or something like that.

I still think he's a secret-Muslim/crypto-Zionist/anti-Christ who was born in Namibia and had to forge his papers via a witch-doctor in New Orleans (the 'Chocolate City') - but, he's doing some good here.

[Penthesilea]

Just throwing another group out there, but the Religious Society of Friends (quakers) and Mennonites are both non-violent religions (or sects of Christianity).