Obama: The United States is "one of the largest Muslim countries in the world"

[Beckwin]

tru dat. and the whole thing ended terribly for russia too, my god what a waste.

[Shinryuu]

Agree. Unlucky countries, the lot of 'em. Unlucky people get mad more often.

[Khamsin]

The US is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.

There are Muslims who live here, and we're the third or fourth largest country in the world.

[Correction]

The US is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.

There are Muslims who live here, and we're the third or fourth largest country in the world.

We're also a violent country.

Holy shit Muslims make us violent!

[Lee]

Yeah cause Present day Christians arent violent either.

Jesus H. Christ, grow a brain and read the first few sentences of my post you quoted, jackass.

And by the way, while there may be a factor of past tensions in Muslim Rage -- you guys are ignoring the other things that occur inside the Islamic world that their religion/culture has dictated, not past feuds with others. Consider these:

Stoning in public (Have you ever seen a video of this? It's basically people pelting huge rocks in PUBLIC at a person and then smashing a small boulder on their skull ending their life.)

Currently, six out of fifty-two Muslim-majority countries in the world use stoning as a legally-sanctioned form of punishment

Lashing

Hanging in public
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...PA_468x481.jpg

Honor Killings (Look up Google on the countless articles of fathers killing their daughters for "dishonoring the family name" usually by breaking some of the rules in Islam)

This occurs in the PRESENT DAY WORLD, even allowed by the religious leaders/public alike. The honor killings even non-Muslim countries experience.

All of these and possibly other acts of barbarity I don't know about have not come from past tensions with other cultures, it is within their own religion and culture. It was even in the cultures of Jews/Christians 1000+ years ago too and as evidenced by violent passages in the Bible today. Things have changed though for Christianity, unlike the Islamic World who are very faithful to their book and thus [in their belief], God.

I don't advocate changing their culture by the way, nor am I against it. I'm just stating the obvious that you guys are ignoring "because it's just NOT fair, Christians are violent too!". As long as a culture doesn't impede on another, then it should be respected and left alone.

Also for people who don't read my posts and just respond in the same manner, I'll say this again, there are violent Christians in the present today too, however they are considered "Radicals" and treated as such when they commit insane acts these days (by being put to jail etc).

[Correction]

there are violent Christians in the present today too, however they are considered "Radicals" and treated as such when they commit insane acts these days (by being put to jail etc).

You're not presenting credible evidence that the use of Islam to brutalize a population isn't also considered 'radical' amongst the more enlightened and progressive muslim world. So far all you've managed to say is 'it's old! It's what they still do today!' without establishing a link between the practice and its acceptance by the muslim world at large.

[Kuya]

Lee, no one is denying that there is seemingly more archaic practices used in Islamic areas of religious activity. What you are doing however, is focusing on one reason as to why this happens, and you seem to want to make a big issue out of this. You're contending that it's due to the book being purer or something, and ignoring all the other factors that play into this. No, none of that "mostly" or "half is due to" crap, we're not dealing with quantifiable issues.

Sure, the fact that the book has gone through less revisions may be a factor, but it's one among many. I don't quite understand why you wana make an issue out of this.

[Faris]

Firas aggro inc...

Death to the infidels.

i'm boosting

@8

[Lee]

I didn't make the issue. I was just trying to correct someone earlier in the thread and prove to him that yes, there are more violent Muslims(than Christians/Jews/etc) due to their religion.

No political aspects to this such as past events etc have made their culture like this. The 'purity' factor is very important in this, and it DOES play a role in their politics. The Abrahamic Religions had very violent role models who made war very easily in the name of God and even conquered people to the point of conversion. Abraham is an example of this, as is Muhammad. The fact that they have kept these 'violent warrior of god' depictions of all of the Prophets into the present day and use them as a guide on how to live a faithful life really gives a sense of devoutness to the modern day Jihadist and even makes many Muslims that are not actively fighting the "fight", agree.

Also Correction, the more enlightened and progressive Muslim world is the smaller piece of the cake. Specifically, the Western influenced and Western living Muslims. I'm going to the Majority if I want an answer. The 'Muslim World at large' [as you stated] (ie: Islamic Countries) accept these rules because they believe in their religion.

[Correction]

The 'Muslim World at large' [as you stated] (ie: Islamic Countries) accept these rules because they believe in their religion.

No they accept these rules because they are fucking terrified of their leadership! You really think Taliban rule over Afghanistan was stable because of religious fervor or because they had guns and public executions waiting for dissidents? Eastern Africa is just so damn devout they can't stop the raping and pillaging, I'm sure it's their weekly Eucharist to maim and torture!

[Blarg]

No they accept these rules because they are fucking terrified of their leadership! You really think Taliban rule over Afghanistan was stable because of religious fervor or because they had guns and public executions waiting for dissidents? Eastern Africa is just so damn devout they can't stop the raping and pillaging, I'm sure it's their weekly Eucharist to maim and torture!

Even a sizable % of more moderate muslims in other countries still believe in barbaric penalties for crimes against Islam. Apostasy is punishable by death and many of the 'moderates' still believe in it so I wouldn't say that it's only because of fear that they follow these rules.

[Kiro]

Man if I get hung I want to end up way the fuck up there like that guy.

[Plow]

So you are saying that the Christianity has evolved through the years into what it is today. And Muslims have stayed the same through some type of intelligent design?

Your "I don't even try to understand the things I argue against in any way" is showing.

[Kuya]

I didn't make the issue. I was just trying to correct someone earlier in the thread and prove to him that yes, there are more violent Muslims(than Christians/Jews/etc) due to their religion.

No political aspects to this such as past events etc have made their culture like this. The 'purity' factor is very important in this, and it DOES play a role in their politics. The Abrahamic Religions had very violent role models who made war very easily in the name of God and even conquered people to the point of conversion. Abraham is an example of this, as is Muhammad. The fact that they have kept these 'violent warrior of god' depictions of all of the Prophets into the present day and use them as a guide on how to live a faithful life really gives a sense of devoutness to the modern day Jihadist and even makes many Muslims that are not actively fighting the "fight", agree.

Also Correction, the more enlightened and progressive Muslim world is the smaller piece of the cake. Specifically, the Western influenced and Western living Muslims. I'm going to the Majority if I want an answer. The 'Muslim World at large' [as you stated] (ie: Islamic Countries) accept these rules because they believe in their religion.

You have not proven that there are more violent Muslims. And no you have to PROVE that statement, not with conjecture but with cold hard data. Furthermore, do not decontextualize violence; violence happens for a reason.

What do you mean "made their culture like this"? You have made no such argument that "political aspects" (all of this is political) aren't related "their culture". Either provide us with a detailed argument for that statement or recant it. The Abrahamic religions have very violent role models because this was, in my unprofessional opinion, is a common occurrence in those times. These books are from a different era and they do not possess the concepts of human rights that we have obtained, which, no one should make the mistake that they are "more advanced". They are simply socio-political historical constructs.

You are making the argument, once again, that they're religion is what makes many Muslims agree with the "fight". Your statement is absurd. At no point have you argued nor proven that your contention (the "purity" of their books) is the primary, sole, or biggest reason as to why they agree with the "fight". Cease simplifying and fragmenting these issues, they aren't toys for you to make simplistic statements. You can't reduce the willingness that some people have to agree with the "fight" with their religion, you have to make the acknowledgment that a lot goes into this, and by a lot, i make an example of the European colonialism and how many in the ME view it.

Finally, you make the grossest statement thus far by doing, quite possibly, the most eurocentric-anglo american value judgement there is. Equating western values with progress. How can anyone deny that the Muslim world is being invaded by colonialists when you have people such as Lee equating their culture as progress? It proves the point that many Muslims have been trying to make time and time again that people in the West see themselves as the enlightened trying to bring civilization to the Middle East. A thousand years ago it was bringing Christianity to the Middle East and now the battle cry is bringing modernity to the Middle East. Same package, different name.

Your arguments thus far have shown hideous disregard for proper analysis and accuracy.

[Faris]

there are more violent Muslims(than Christians/Jews/etc) due to their religion.

oh really? did you just make that up?

No political aspects to this such as past events etc have made their culture like this. The 'purity' factor is very important in this, and it DOES play a role in their politics. The Abrahamic Religions had very violent role models who made war very easily in the name of God and even conquered people to the point of conversion. Abraham is an example of this, as is Muhammad. The fact that they have kept these 'violent warrior of god' depictions of all of the Prophets into the present day and use them as a guide on how to live a faithful life really gives a sense of devoutness to the modern day Jihadist and even makes many Muslims that are not actively fighting the "fight", agree.

what do you know of prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) teachings?

its your choice to believe in islam or not. but to deny this man's greatness, righteousness and just is pure ignorance.

of many quotes about people who studied or read the life of prophet Muhammad (PBUH):

He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports.

- Bosworth Smith
Mohammad And Mohammadanism, London, 1874, p. 92.

and im not very clear about islam teaches violence...like how? i was never taught violence, and i strictly follow the Quran and the prophet's teachings (PBUH)...i get taught if someone does wrong he/she will punished..not by me though; by the Authority or God.
but going around and creating violence? is that what you think Islam is about?

oh the disbelievers? well, this is the Surra on the disbelievers..its called "the disbelievers"

[quote]1 -"Say (O Muhammad (SAW) to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): "O Al-Kâfirûn (disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion"
Sura # 109 [quote]

isn't that clear enough on our stance towards disbelievers?

this violence is by angry, hateful people who happen to be muslims..funny, the prophet also spoke about them too in his teachings; they existed even in his day.

man, i see extremism in everything nowadays, it doesnt start or stop with religion...its the damn people, you get fucked up people that practice something, and they practice it in the wrong way. why is that very shocking to any of you; you can see it in everything.

[Neosutra]

While I strongly agree that the violence is by angry/hateful people, I dont think you can so easily pull it apart from their religion Firas.

And I think you are putting muhammad a bit higher than he deserves when looking at him "just as a man". (And to be fair, I dont think other religion's "prophets" were that great either.). He was just another wack job =/.

[Faris]

While I strongly agree that the violence is by angry/hateful people, I dont think you can so easily pull it apart from their religion Firas.

And I think you are putting muhammad a bit higher than he deserves when looking at him "just as a man". (And to be fair, I dont think other religion's "prophets" were that great either.). He was just another wack job =/.

really put aside the religion....he IS a great man..illiterate, 40 year old shepherd who then became merchant, at the age of 40 started building what we have now...only took him 23 years only to build a nation, a system, a religion...he's the most mentioned man in history...what are you talking about man. thats in no way the works of a wack job.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYVgsVRE4Mo


The Most Influential People in History

[Plow]

He was just another wack job =/.

lol @ this comment from the guy that cries about people judging his beliefs


I bet in your great open-minded thinking about theology it never occurred to you that any of these people could have been nothing more than great teachers of peace who were aggrandized and even used to promote different, personal objectives, or any of a million other likely possibilities given all the misinterpretation and hearsay.


Nah, definitely not even worth thinking about, I'm too open minded for religion, anyone involved in it is just another whack job.

[archibaldcrane]

Firas, do you feel that Saudi Arabia's Sharia law is generally as sickening as we do? (Yeah, other posters, I'm lumping you all into "we"). You live in one of the wealthiest, more progressive "Muslim countries" and you're right next to what I consider to be one of the most backwards, repressive "Muslim countries".

Americans have their jokes about Canada and opinions about Mexico - how is Saudi Arabia perceived in the UAE?

[Faris]

Shari'a Law - to me, is not sickening.
I think we should have that in all Muslim countries. Whats happening now is not shari'a law, they just call it that. They imply some of it only, and to a certain group of people...nepotism.
THAT sickens me.

Especially when they charge me $9,000 for the Hajj pilgrimage when they know its one of the pillars of Islam. Hajj should be free or perhaps a reasonable fee to it.