Inquiry: Just what the hell do GMs do?

[Jingseng]

As a lawyer (if it wasn't obvious), I can appreciate where you all are coming from, and your valid points.

Calling someone an asshole isn't defamation - it's a mere insult. Nor is it possible to recover on grounds of intentional infliction of emotional distress in some cases (in short, sage sundi gets off free).

So it's not as if I don't understand about the roulette theory of birdshittery (some days it shits on you, and some days the guy next to you gets the 'good luck').

Nor am I unfamiliar with the argument of "a slippery slope" (re: grey area, or gray area, depending =p). There's no real need to get in to a true debate on these points, although i would note that SE has already embarked upon the slippery slope with the LM-17 debacle (and other very very early game days glitches; but this would lead to HNMLS drama, which is more advanced than standard =p).

The point here is: There is no grey area in this case.

This is about as cut and dry as it gets. And for all the touting of GM duty to help players resolve problems that they cannot through the game itself, and to make this game more enjoyable (and to prevent player griefing, and scamming [note: why is scamming objectionable? It is a form of theft. Consider how scamming will be rectified by GMs on the basis of objective data, but the instant case will not], which are fundamental precepts of the POL agreement).

Even so, suppose the junior GM (for lack of a better term) went ahead and exercised power to do so - to a certain degree, GM's do have the ability to Confiscate and Return items. In short, to remove and put into inventory items. Would this create Precedent amongst the community?

Nope. I think most of us would simply consider it an outlier, an abnormal occurrence. Moreover, and more importantly, there is absolutely no mechanism by which one GM's actions are at all precedential and therefore BINDING amongst all other GMs - there is no transparency, no reporting, no recording of GM actions (other than what we provide each other).

Moreover, we are already familiar (and even at ease) with GMs acting inconsistently with one another - i'm sure there are some here who remember when it became illegal to hold HNMs, as well as the debacle where (pre ToAU!) two NA hnmls held Fafhogg (one or the other) while a JP ls kept trying to take... eventually there was a wipe, at which point the JP ls took faf, and the NA ls caused a spike flail (epiclols). Correct me if I'm mistaken, but this was before /blockaid, and the jp ls was also curebombing the NA kiters to try to acquire claim. Multiple people from the NA ls were banned and investigated. No one from the JP ls was even reprimanded.

Not merely would this fall under the category of racism, but it is clearly inconsistent action by the GM community; holding of HNMs and NMs continued by the JP community afterwards without punishment, but was expressly forbidden to the NA side.

So frankly, piecemeal, inconsistent decisions by GMs which are not binding on any other GM are, ironically, what we have come to expect (that is to say, consistent).

Lastly, I know many people have said "just go with a static". That presumes a number of things: namely that there are 5 people whom I trust not to dick me over, who are always on at the same time I am, and who are at all interested in saving their tags for doing Nyzul to either get armor themselves, or solely to help me get armor. A great many of my friends have quit this game (or ended up screwing me to get what they wanted) - in fact, instances like this are part of why so many have quit.

As for gathering others and forming a static well: isn't that simply getting together with strangers? That is no different from doing a pick up run. A stranger in a "Static" has every motive to screw you to get what they want, no different from a pick up.

This last bit is what is, to me, the most troubling consequence of what this GM ruling is (especially if it's, perhaps, the one thing they insist on being constant on) - in such a brightline case as this (no contributory fault of the victim [full inventory, accidentally pass, time ran out, etc.], impossible mistake/error, willingness to make amends voluntarily, immediate report to GMs, objective Chatlog evidence, witness testimony by other, unrelated [pure strangers who lost lot themselves and have no incentive to lie] members of the party)...what is the consequence?

1. Stealing is OK. Ninja whatever you want, whatever you can, GMs will neither punish you nor take it away from you.

and worse:

2. You absolutely cannot trust anyone on any server, unless you know them personally. Good luck getting anything in game accomplished, unless you have that many reliable people.

Of course, some LS have been around long enough, have the name and reputable players to not have to worry about either point. But how many new lses do you see springing up all the time? I counted 3 new dyna, 2 new sky, 1 new limbus in the past 2 weeks. Even so, what about new members? There's only so much reasonable precaution players should HAVE to take in the course of have a reasonable modicum of enjoyment in this game.

when ff14 rolls around, I will remember this. I will remember every time a GM has been unhelpful. I will remember every time I got screwed on a drop. I will remember spending hours camping nms, only not to get claim (or to get claim and get nothing). I will remember the alternative, which was spending hours taking photos to pop an nm that didn't drop (or that people stopped showing up to kill). I will remember killing nearly 1000 mobs for gothic gauntlets and still not getting it because the drop rate from chest is less than 5% (and therefore by multiplication...). I'll remember AV and PW. I'll remember "beta testing" all the expansion stuff (and updates) from ToAU and on. I'll remember all the un-fun times I've had because they outnumber the fun times a hundred+ to one. And I'll remember it because it's the same people. Someone will, without fail, say that FF14 is what FF11 should have been; In reality, FF14 will simply be what FF11 was.

Edit: Just wanted to note for MysteriousX: This is, no joke, the 5th time I've lost this armor piece (let alone askar at all), after many many times hitting the floor (or in some incompetent cases, simply trying). However, it is the 1st time I've lost it when it was rightfully mine; that is why I am willing to fight for it, rather than simply roll over and get trampled on. If I'd simply lost the lot legitimately (as in all the other times) then I would simply continue or not, no drama.

[socoxak]

An SGM or a JP LS speaking to a JP GM >_>

I don't doubt that they can do it, but whether they are allowed by policy/can be bothered to/can be persuaded to or not is another matter.

You could try calling another GM, and then asking to elevate the matter to an SGM, but in the time it'll take to get it resolved, you could have hit that floor again 4+ times.

There is also the magic 8 Ball theory of GM procedure.

That link was too entertaining..

Question: We feel that Absolute Virture is too suck-tastic. Can you please hit your JP Button to magically fix it?

Answer: The person in charge of Absolute Virture contracted a case of the Chocobo Flu.

Question: We feel that Pandemonium Warden is too hard. Can you please take it back to Japan with you?

Answer: The person in charge of Pandemonium Warden is busy trying to get his Seedspall Lux.

Tho I'm sure any madlib combination about those would be funny, I think I should go to bed..

But really, I agree SE doesn't handle stuff well, and I sympathize. I don't think I've been personally screwed out of anything important but I've known of many cases similar to this. Also, someone I knew, right before he quit, got himself into a dynamis and lotted everything. GMs did nothing. Of course he got into a JP dyna on a different character the next day and was immediately (within like 10 min) told to drop his hourglass. Maybe an example of someone getting lucky with GMs, or maybe just another testimonial of JP GM > NA GM?

[Yugl]

Of course, some LS have been around long enough, have the name and reputable players to not have to worry about either point. But how many new lses do you see springing up all the time? I counted 3 new dyna, 2 new sky, 1 new limbus in the past 2 weeks. Even so, what about new members? There's only so much reasonable precaution players should HAVE to take in the course of have a reasonable modicum of enjoyment in this game.

I agree with most of your post (Although I believe that GMs are limited in power, and is thus, the reason they can't take action in this case), but I find this to be the most powerful statement you've made. There is no sense of "security" in FFXI. LS leaders only have power so far as the members want to stay in the LS. Members only have security over LS possessions when they are the direct owner of LS mules. This is in a LS setting. It becomes worse in a static/pick-up setting. There is no real security when it comes to FFXI and other players.

I think there is gridlock between the capabilities/directions given to GMs and preventative techniques to stop this from occurring in the first place. My conjecture is that SE believed status and community standing would be enough to deter players from such action, but as we've seen (Heightened by the character restoration and world transfer), it is an ineffective technique. GMs are limited in permissive action and players are limited in preventative action. Item security is amiss and it's not an issue creating a static can fix.

[510Meeze]

If I was a GM and someone was complaining about Askar Dirs, I'd send them off to read 40 pages of legal documents too.

[Baelorn]

If I was a GM and someone was complaining about Askar Dirs, I'd send them off to read 40 pages of legal documents too.

lol I was thinking the same thing. Even if the GM had been able to do it they probably would have made you use your one time item recovery. Would you really use that on Askar Dirs?

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Might not the best use of your one-time item recovery but it'd be a big fucking step in the right direction.

[Portcity]

If I was a GM and someone was complaining about Askar Dirs, I'd send them off to read 40 pages of legal documents too.

lol when i saw this, i almost spit out my beer, prettry funny

[Panthera]

Given their approach to customer service, isn't everyone really motivated to sign up for another MMO by SE? Why another seven years of the same bullshit with prettier graphics? Nothku.

[Eticket]

Given their approach to customer service, isn't everyone really motivated to sign up for another MMO by SE? Why another seven years of the same bullshit with prettier graphics? Nothku.

That's always struck me as funny. I know a few people that got banned back in January who got pissed and swore they were done with SE. A bunch of people here spend most of their posts griping about SE. Yet as soon as 14 was announced, most of them were back on board.

As for GMs I equate them to customer service reps in a giant call center. Some of them are good. Some of them just plain suck at their jobs. Most though are just trying to do the job to the best of their ability while satisfying corporate policies and bureaucracy. There have been a lot of places I worked where there was a large difference between what I wanted to do to help a customer and what I could do to help a customer.

[Gergall]

Get into the habit of waiting for all people who are supposed to pass, pass first BEFORE you cast your lot.

In this case you felt rushed because of the time limit, but remember there are 30 second and 10 second warnings In Nyzul.

[Plow]

GM's do 3 things:

Get stuck people unstuck

Do your 1 time item restore

Show up just in time to prevent you from getting your mob back via mpk and jailing you so that the people that mpk'd you to steal it can safely kill.

[Jingseng]

I don't lrn2read and missed the point of the entire thread

Fixed.

lol I think i'm witty, but I have nothing to add, because i don't lrn2read either

Fixed.

lol when i saw this, i simply didn't have shit to add, so i posted

and fixed.

Update: after two weeks of not playing ffxi (during which they attempted to contact me three times! wow! how they 'attempted' to contact me when I simply wasn't on is beyond me) I finally logged on to check marbles and consolidate my gil in preparation for quitting (look, if you retards like the three above don't get it by now, you just don't get it). During which, an SGM got in touch with me. He was politer, but frankly, just as dumb and useless. He said he would submit a request (ooooh) but would not even add, as my final request, a note that this player was quitting and would not be playing ff14.

He then cut and pasted his normal policy responses and hoped that I would have a change of heart for 14. Lol...

This also begs the question: if Senior GMs are constrained to the exact same policies as regular gms, then what is the point of Senior GMs at all? I mean really, they are exactly the same as GMs, but with "senior" in front. The whole point of Senior GM would be to have someone NOT constrained like a regular GM and be able to do things regular GMs canNOT, so as to fix mistakes and inequities.

I honestly can't see this system being fixed at all for 14. They might say they will... just like spell-lock.

Edit: Forgot to add - See you Vana'Diel~ Been a nice few years while it lasted.

[Yugl]

Oh don't leave FFXI over Askar legs. Tell ya what, I'll give you my Brogames coupon and you can get the gil to pay for a group to do runs just for you!

Incoming argument: It's the principle not the Askar.

Counter argument: If it were the service and not the Askar, then why didn't you leave earlier? The service has been the same, but you simply ignored it until it came to Askar legs. Either it was the Askar or you were completely unaware of how useless GMs were to begin with (Well they're useful to JP for getting NAs banned, but that's another issue).

[Chinchilla]

I've got a story to go along with the retardation of GM's.

Naturally KV = being GM'd on carby (and i'm pretty sure every other server). So it pops, we kite with 2 and ls members slowly start to login over time. 4 other people are there, 2 each from 2 different LS'.

One of them calls a GM within a minute of KV popping. (the ls that called was butthurt because they couldn't kite it with 6 a day or two before and we got claim). So there's still only 4 people there besides my LS (we had 10 atm, it just hit nighttime, 2 more were otw) So we were gonna kill it when day time hits.

The GM they called (although was fucking stupid) was funny in the fact that he was ripping on the guy that called the GM in the first place, asking him why he's curing himself (it was after he cured on of my guys).... so that was pretty funny. They know about attempted mpk, but not about KV.

(this was a SS of the GM asking why the guy was curing himself, but I don't have 10 posts yet)

Even though there wasn't another LS there, the GM gave us 20minutes to kill it or leave it. So I try explaining to him about it's regen and shit, and that no other shell here could kill it with 2 people. He wasn't listening so I put in a GM call. 10 minutes later my GM shows up and overturns the first GM's decision because this one actually knew about KV.... so go figure... if you are getting fucked by some retards and a GM just call another until you get your way.

[Eticket]

https://secure.playonline.com/ff11us/rule/policy.shtml

Here is what you can read next time rather than post a question for which the answer has already been stated.

Sadly, they treat us like adults and assume we can deal with the repercussions of making a mistake.

This x1000.


Seriously, if you're going to leave over this then just do it. Have fun and good luck wherever else you go.

[Kilorilo]

when ff14 rolls around, I will remember this. I will remember every time a GM has been unhelpful. I will remember every time I got screwed on a drop. I will remember spending hours camping nms, only not to get claim (or to get claim and get nothing). I will remember the alternative, which was spending hours taking photos to pop an nm that didn't drop (or that people stopped showing up to kill). I will remember killing nearly 1000 mobs for gothic gauntlets and still not getting it because the drop rate from chest is less than 5% (and therefore by multiplication...). I'll remember AV and PW. I'll remember "beta testing" all the expansion stuff (and updates) from ToAU and on. I'll remember all the un-fun times I've had because they outnumber the fun times a hundred+ to one. And I'll remember it because it's the same people. Someone will, without fail, say that FF14 is what FF11 should have been; In reality, FF14 will simply be what FF11 was.

Sounds like you played FFXI for all this time, hating it, but still playing it for no apparent reason other than spite towards its creators.

[ErzaScarlet]

Sounds like you played FFXI for all this time, hating it, but still playing it for no apparent reason other than spite towards its creators.

Sounds like he played it for the same reason a lot of people play it, gaming addiction.

It takes a lot to break a gaming addiction and if he was unhappy and is finally leaving then good for him, dont play 14, I dont plan to.

I play 11 for a combination of addiction and the fact that I enjoy the interaction with my LS, this is the last mmorpg i'll ever play though.

FF11 had some great qualities, and many extremely well planned addictive ones, SE made a good drug and was smart to understand they had to provide little to no service to keep people around.

Venting really wont get you far, however if it makes you feel better than that's more than enough reason to continue.

If youre quitting then GL to you, have fun with all your new free time.