Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

[BRP]

To be clear: it would work on any WS. Else it will likely be ignored. AND it wouldn't make the rest of the WS magical damage, only the bonus.

[ringthree]

Yeah, if only we had a bunch of WSes we never used because they were Elemental in nature....

Too true. There are so many unused and under-utilized ideas in FFXI. An entire update could be dedicated just to making currently useless JA's, WS's, spells and items useful. Honestly, I think I would take that over a regular update.

[Cutriss]

SE probably won't be majorly adjusting DNC or SCH until the next big CoP/ToAU sized (real) expansion releases the next set of new jobs.

I wouldn't expect any more jobs for the rest of the game's life. IIRC, the macro books fill up the available UI space on the PS2 for selections, and I'm sure they set it to 20 spaces specifically because there are 20 jobs. Sure, only anal people like me would set one job to each book, but I could easily see SE having designed it that way because they had no intention of including any new jobs in the game (especially if they had a target EOL date for XI after the introduction of XIV, which has been, as stated, in planning for 4-5 years).

[Yugl]

Speculation at it's finest.

BTW Do you have sneak/invis up during XP? If not, I think true sight/sound is irrelevant.

Someone has never XPed at the Range!

Hint: It's not during the PT that you need sneak and invisible.

The SC/MB/XP idea works, but you have to tweak it a bit. To avoid Dia MB (Though I would like someone to start casting Dia...) just have the XP tier by DMG on MB. You could also decrease the XP given by SCs in general and just up the multiplier for MBs.

Edit: Elemental WSs (And other ones) already have their limited place in the game (JoF if melee can't come mage). It would be a ridiculous idea to make all WSs useful when people bitch about how their later tier WSs are rarely used (Impulse Drive anyone?!). Not to mention the fucking hassle of carrying 49983293232 Gorgets/Sets for each WS.

[LD]

Stiener/Vivi. Magic Sword. Well, if it were Vivi's command.

Though frankly, I doubt it could be pulled off in FFXI.


Also, Cocks.

[Abandon]

How is the issue with BLM not DMG or MP based? Yeah there are other issues, but those are two main reasons why BLM is being out shadowed by SCH. Over time SCH completly beats out BLM. BLM still has good spike DMG, but the longer the battle goes on, the faster SCH out damages. There should be no reason why SCH out does BLM, just like SCH shouldnt take over a WHM or RDM.

Obviously this is more focused on non PT situations, my suggestions wernt for BLM to be accepted back into PTs, just fun abilities to have around, and give them an edge over SCH again.

This is why you guys always cry foul every time my SCH gets a new toy, eh? ; ; Don't feel bad, you'll all get novio over me.... wait.. even that's not true. lmao.

[ronin sparthos]

Speculation at it's finest.

BTW Do you have sneak/invis up during XP? If not, I think true sight/sound is irrelevant.

Never denied it being speculation however...

My point was every time SE releases a new monster type that looks remotely intimidating, it turns out to some monster that's been placed in the game for the sole purpose of fucking you up with over the top TP moves. Remember Peistes? Rafflesia? Orobons? Uragnites?

Considering the northlands by lore is going to be a place that comes off as intimidating, I really doubt that Gargoyles are going to be stealing your food and wiping your TP. Oh no, they will be designed to create all sorts of havoc, this is the SE way.

Trust me, id love to EXP on fun shit that comes off as intimidating (even if it's just till the novelty wears) but I dont put it past SE to completely dick over the opportunity with over the top TP moves that ruin any chance of this happening. I also dont put it past SE to pussy out and throw some white Colibri-variants and declare they have fixed overcrowding at merit camps while completely missing the point that some people want simple variety.

[Yugl]

Trust me, id love to EXP on fun shit that comes off as intimidating (even if it's just till the novelty wears) but I dont put it past SE to completely dick over the opportunity with over the top TP moves that ruin any chance of this happening. I also dont put it past SE to pussy out and throw some white Colibri-variants and declare they have fixed overcrowding at merit camps while completely missing the point that some people want simple variety.

White Colibri are a variety! They could turn out to be the white rabbits that appeared in CoP (SAME PEOPLE THAT MADE CoP!). Change Flurry to Ice Breath and it's a new type! Ten floors of them and XP dilemma solved!

[Hanyoko]

Successful SC + MB gives an extra 10 exp for lvl1, 25 for level2, 50 for level 3. This value is added after exp is split/level corrected, and is not modified by exp bands/sanction etc. and therefore can exceed the normal exp per kill amounts. Maybe impose a cap of 100 or so on exp gained from this method.

If you participated in the SC or MB, you get 100% of that value; if you were in party and had some form of hate, you get 1/2 that value.

ooorrrr some modification of the above rules; No data sample to accurately create realistic values.

This wont get blms into colibri parties, but it will lean back towards the SC+MB system. I could see blms being used in mamool/troll parties with this though.


*Edit Addition*
Or if the MB succeeds (and is over say.. 50 damage) then 5% of *total* MB damage + 5% of SC damage = bonus exp

[Aksannyi]

Posted this on another forum, but this is my (probably stupid) idea for a slight BLM update which would be kinda cool:

Maybe BLM should get a Sekkanoki-like ability.

Sekka does kind of a mini- Meikyo Shuisi (I know I spelled that wrong, I don't care, you know what I'm talking about) in that it makes your WS use only 100% TP, so that you can do a quick self-skillchain. It really is a mini-two hour.

What if BLMs had something similar? A job ability, I have no good name for it maybe something like "Mana Null." (yeah it sucks)

10 minute recast
Duration: 1 minute, wears upon spell cast (like ES)
Level 50+
Causes your next spell to cost zero MP.

Trust me, this would not be overpowered. If you're on BLM and you're out of MP, chances are you're right at the borderline of being across the hate line, if you're not there already. That would not be a good time to use this ability, unless you are soloing. Not gonna overpower soloing, BLMs are already very powerful at soloing so there is nothing wrong with an added boost to that in my opinion. Solo BLM isn't gonna go away. However, using this can allow you conserve better and let your MP last a bit longer, which is nice, also reduces downtime for parties if you choose to have a BLM in one. Also, Manafont lasts ... 2 minutes? I think, during which I can cast three to five spells depending on whether I am getting smacked/running away/any other thing that might happen. This would only work for one spell.

This idea of the "mini two hour" could be useful for other jobs as well, for some jobs it would be overpowered but I liked the idea of it when Sekkanoki came out for SAMs. Doesn't really fall outside the realm of what the job does, doesn't really step on any other job's toes, and doesn't overpower anything.

I expect more criticism here than at the other forum I posted originally, but really I personally think BLM is fine the way it is, something small like this could add something to the job without overpowering it.

[BRP]

I don't believe anyone who want to adds exp bonuses to SC+MB actually likes doing SC+MB.

[Khamsin]

There should be no reason why SCH out does BLM, just like SCH shouldnt take over a WHM or RDM.

Then who is SCH supposed to be better than? Do WHM, RDM and BLM have some entitlement to being better than jobs that get added later? Do new jobs have to be worse than existing jobs?

[The Blackrose]

Then who is SCH supposed to be better than? Do WHM, RDM and BLM have some entitlement to being better than jobs that get added later? Do new jobs have to be worse than existing jobs?

This would be more due to the fact that WHM, RDM and BLM have their roles defined pretty rigidly, while SCH can jump into different situations at will. It's sort of understandable if it's threatening an established job.

[Damane]

I don't believe anyone who want to adds exp bonuses to SC+MB actually likes doing SC+MB.

Noone likes it, only if its necessary, thats why I would like to see the ability I mentioned before to be added to help manaburns get actually more chains, so BLM can keep up exp wise with melees a bit.

The only thing holding manaburns back to gain the same amount of exp is their manapool that dries out (and not many camps to choose of).

An ability that lowers MP cost for elemental spells by half, but lowers the magic accuracy so it cannot be used on HNMs or VT NMs would help manaburns/soloing.

[BRP]

BLM is not the only job capable of doing MBs. They are not even the only ones that can hit moderately high MBs.

Adding nothing but an exp reward basically takes the efficiency outside the battle system. Consider all the situations where you are not looking to score more exp.

It would be like "Hey PUP isn't used, lets make some HNMs drop items only when a PUP is in the alliance." What is funny is that this actually enough for some people: THF.

[Gergall]

Then who is SCH supposed to be better than? Do WHM, RDM and BLM have some entitlement to being better than jobs that get added later? Do new jobs have to be worse than existing jobs?

The strength of a SCH is that it is able to rapidly jump from healer to nuker and back if the situation calls for it. The ability to be 90% as good as a WHM one minute and 90% as good as a BLM the next is pretty incredible. But right now, it's largely regarded that SCH can be 90% as good as a WHM one minute and 110% as good as a BLM the next. That's overpowered...basically it's better than a BLM (over time) PLUS it does almost everything a WHM does.

[Nicholette]

Dear SE,

Make Beastmaster into the 3rd tank job, please.

3rd? PLD NIN RDM BLU DRK can all tank mobs at any or all levels of the game. Others probably could too, all that really matters is hate tools and haste gear for Ichi/ni timers. I don't see SE adding any tank+++ stuff ever.

[TummieGaruda]

If you want to be able to cast a spell with 0 MP why not do it this way...

Take a page from WHM release a new job ability and spell.
The new job ability has a 30 second recast and lasts for 2 hrs. While under this recast, the damage from spells that you cast (A percentage of course) is stored. There would be some type of maximum amount that can be stored based on level, and you can use the new spell Comet which deals non elemental magic and costs 0 mp or something low like 10-20 mp. The Damage would be based on the amount stored. Once the spell is used, the stored damage is reset.

[Yugl]

Noone likes it, only if its necessary, thats why I would like to see the ability I mentioned before to be added to help manaburns get actually more chains, so BLM can keep up exp wise with melees a bit.

The only thing holding manaburns back to gain the same amount of exp is their manapool that dries out (and not many camps to choose of).

This entirely. SCs are lame because they require coordination and finding people with such skills are rare to begin with. It would require heightened incentive for people to leave (Not slightly better XP) TP burns.

MP (For both BLM and SCH)/Kill Speed/Camps kill the XP capability of BLMs. Fix these and make them specific to merit camps. BLMs can get an adjustment to fix MP issues outside of merits, but I honestly don't think the issue is as dire as people suggest. People aren't picking up SCH like they used to (Especially with the recent WHM update) for events. BLMs still maintain a role in EG events and manaburn PTs. Can SCH out nuke them over time? Sure. However, the relevant situations in which they have this opportunity to shine don't occur all that often. Moreover, every time you invite a SCH, you're replacing someone with the ability to stun and AMII/Aga3 (Where applicable). Is there a difference? Yes. Does it matter? Not really.

The strength of a SCH is that it is able to rapidly jump from healer to nuker and back if the situation calls for it. The ability to be 90% as good as a WHM one minute and 90% as good as a BLM the next is pretty incredible. But right now, it's largely regarded that SCH can be 90% as good as a WHM one minute and 110% as good as a BLM the next. That's overpowered...basically it's better than a BLM (over time) PLUS it does almost everything a WHM does.

Really? 90%? I think someone has just been looking at the JAs without considering the equip needed for both arts. If I want to be 90% of a WHM, I need to be at the top of my game (Especially with the last update). SCH cannot carry all the equip it needs to change back and forth effectively. Moreover, there are tons of situations where BLMs can outdo SCH because of kill speed (An aspect that is becoming increasingly important). It's ridiculous to suggest that SCH is always playing two classes at once. Try using a 560/650 base MP (Dark/Light Art MP for Elvaan) and see if you can effectively be a BLM and WHM. When playing SCH, you tend to stick to one role and that's it. If you're suggesting that SCH should be lesser tier because it can change roles effectively (Which requires an overhaul in gear), then you might as well suggest that NIN/DRK/WAR/SAM/COR/RDM/MNK/BLU deserve to be lesser tiers DD/Support because they can change roles through gear/JAs.

[ronin sparthos]

White Colibri are a variety! They could turn out to be the white rabbits that appeared in CoP (SAME PEOPLE THAT MADE CoP!). Change Flurry to Ice Breath and it's a new type! Ten floors of them and XP dilemma solved!

Oh god lol.

On SC+MBs:

SC+MB may be annoying but the option should be there for a good normal party to be able to go out and get good EXP. Currently you have a tier of Colibri/Mamool Ja (20k+/hr) and then for the typical party a bunch of other camps in TOAU/WOTG that cant even break 12-15k.

Qutrub (Lamia Idolators) had potential as they took double damage and encouraged SC+MB cooperation but they failed to have a family-specific EXP bonus so that camp turned out to be another 10k/hr wonder of the SE mind. Had Qutrubs been implemented better, it could have been a great place to get BLMs and DD together.

Arrapago Reef had alot of potential as well for a neo-KRT meripo area but that got hosed by Draugars having stupid as fuck Maladiction and a lack of proper monster positioning. Had Arrapago delivered, you would have a great area for Monks to go enjoy the finer points of blunt-weak monsters.

Pre-ToAU you had at least 4 places to meripo (KRT, Moon, Lufaise, Sky) as slow as most of them were by today's standards. Today you have 2 and if those two dont suit you, thats just too bad. It just doesn't make sense and that's why more than half the jobs in this game have been forced to either Campaign or conform to a meripo job.