Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

[Plow]

You're not coming remotely near making a SC worthwhile without it being L3 now, so wipe everything off that list other than gekko > asuran or gekko > evisc. And then you're wasting tp.


I mean... you don't *really* think we haven't tried skillchain parties, do you?

[chiyio]

While tanking and stuff is cool and all... Killer Effects just need to see some hefty offensive bonuses. Attack, Accuracy, crit rate, all of the above. whatever.

Didnt Killer Effects used to induce a slow or haste effect, which was then changed to intimidation?

[Yugl]

Didnt Killer Effects used to induce a slow or haste effect, which was then changed to intimidation?

Used to give Haste and ATT I believe. I doubt SE will change it back to that.

[Spira]

hmm..
the SC+MB thing is interesting. i personally love doing SC+MB, but the coordination takes some getting used to, and quite a number of newer players aren't as familiar with it / bothered with it.

If they were to build an EXP bonus system that rewarded SC+MB, i think I would design it this way..

(Base EXP) x 1.1/1.3/1.5 (depending on SC level) + total MB dmg in that skillchain / 5
and if theres more than 1 SC from that battle, the highest level one with the highest MB dmg combination to it

so, if i did a Lv3 Light MB + 1000dmg MB on a mob that gives 200exp base, it would work out to be...

200 x 1.5 + (1000/5) = 500 xp which seems like a decent bonus...

and to speed up the process, bonuses will be granted if the mob was killed by a SC or MB...

if the mob was killed by a SC, all party members would get some HP back, going by the formula (20HP x EXP chain #), but caps at 100HP.
(i realise this helps TPburns as well, but people dont really SC then too, so encouraging SC there may be a good thing? lol, and mobs dying by SC isn't that common unless its a huge Lv3 SC, so its not dependable)

if the mob was killed by a MB, all party members would get some MP back, going by the formula (20MP x EXP chain #), also capping at 100MP (chain 5).

This would favor SC and MBing in exp pts. It wouldn't take away from TP burns, but it'd give BLMs a way to compete against I think, either in hybrid balanced party, or a true SC only for BLMs to MB kind of pt.

It could also give power to SMN burns.. the type that starts off with 2 avatars creating a skillchain, and the other 4 magic bursting it...

lol.. this system would also mean HNMS might actually give u a substantial chunk of EXP on their death too.... which would be kinda neat

[Plow]

With our gear now we need level 89ish mobs with reasonable defense and a base exp cap of like 450 for it to compete, and even then top notch melee burns are going to cream all over that shit.


Here's what happens if you do some crazy exp bonus on MB's:

2 sams, brd, cor, rdm, blm

With good gear every mob will die in 15 seconds, only now they'll give 500 exp a pop since part of the dmg was a MB....

[Yugl]

If we don't want SC PTs, they could just make Puddings restore MP every kill like statues.

[Plow]

If we don't want SC PTs, they could just make Puddings restore MP every kill like statues.

That would be a much better idea, or even like just some kind of job trait that restores MP whenever the BLM gets a killing blow. That wouldn't help the mana burns as much (unless it was party wide significant restore), but it might give them a chance to compete with melees on long term damage if it was enough mana to keep up.

Hell, make it enough that they can sub nin and stand right in there with the melees, and good melee can just learn to switch mobs at 25% or whatever.

[Spira]

Used to give Haste and ATT I believe. I doubt SE will change it back to that.

I believe intimidate used to give Haste to the BST, and slow to the mob. The only trace of this ever being is probably in the pugil TP move 'Intimidate" which would give players slow..

To help BSTs by going down the path of the 'intimidation tank' idea,
i suppose they could add a Job Trait at like Lv40+ that enhances BSTs killer effects only..

say for example,
Ferocity (Lv40 Job Trait)
Increases Intimidation rate on all Killer effects by 5%
Haste +5%

Ferocity II (Lv60 Job Trait)
Increases Intimidation rate on all Killer effects by 5%
Haste +5%

..so that when u stack these 2 with Killer Instinct, thats 15% higher than base / with CHR.
And with a natural 10% haste, it boosts DD capability in a sense, but also helps with things like Utsusemi recast (for /NIN, everyone will still want to have shadows somehow lol)

The only other problem I see for BST is hate tools. It only really has Charm, which has no VE so holding hate especially at the start of battles would be a problem...

for that I'd suggest a new JA

Feral Growl (LV50, 1min recast)
Inflicts Fear (a daze effect that increases/creates a chance for intimidation, like 10%, lasts for like 30s maybe, but more importantly, comes with like 1500 VE. Fear probably doesnt always land on higher level mobs...
(if anyone is wondering why something like fear would give enmity, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate )

and an adjustment to Feral Howl..
change it to 5minute recast, and each additional merit increases chance of terror or duration

Seems like a lot of changes, but they did something like that with WHMs last update, so its not entirely out of reason...
with that in place tho, intimidation tanks would be pretty awesome

[Plow]

Yoda theory of game design is win.

[nitsuj]

I'm crossing my fingers for:

Einherjar: Treasure drop rate was adjusted, Alexandrite added to all normal mob treasure list

Something to make Einherjar more rewarding for people to attend/lead if they already have Eyepatch :/

[TummieGaruda]

hmm..
the SC+MB thing is interesting. i personally love doing SC+MB, but the coordination takes some getting used to, and quite a number of newer players aren't as familiar with it / bothered with it.

If they were to build an EXP bonus system that rewarded SC+MB, i think I would design it this way..

(Base EXP) x 1.1/1.3/1.5 (depending on SC level) + total MB dmg in that skillchain / 5
and if theres more than 1 SC from that battle, the highest level one with the highest MB dmg combination to it

so, if i did a Lv3 Light MB + 1000dmg MB on a mob that gives 200exp base, it would work out to be...

200 x 1.5 + (1000/5) = 500 xp which seems like a decent bonus...

and to speed up the process, bonuses will be granted if the mob was killed by a SC or MB...

if the mob was killed by a SC, all party members would get some HP back, going by the formula (20HP x EXP chain #), but caps at 100HP.
(i realise this helps TPburns as well, but people dont really SC then too, so encouraging SC there may be a good thing? lol, and mobs dying by SC isn't that common unless its a huge Lv3 SC, so its not dependable)

if the mob was killed by a MB, all party members would get some MP back, going by the formula (20MP x EXP chain #), also capping at 100MP (chain 5).

This would favor SC and MBing in exp pts. It wouldn't take away from TP burns, but it'd give BLMs a way to compete against I think, either in hybrid balanced party, or a true SC only for BLMs to MB kind of pt.

It could also give power to SMN burns.. the type that starts off with 2 avatars creating a skillchain, and the other 4 magic bursting it...

lol.. this system would also mean HNMS might actually give u a substantial chunk of EXP on their death too.... which would be kinda neat

Well in order to bring back SC+MB, SE needs to revamp the whole system to give incentives. Back in the past, SC+MB was used in order to fight harder mobs and keep chains, etc. Now we are fighting easier mobs and performing long chains. If SE wants to make SC+MB work they need to first look at average exp/hr at each level taking both good parties and bad parties.
On a good day fighting IT's in RoTZ/CoP Zones it was a good day cracking 7-8K/hr. That normally consisted of getting chain up to chain#5 roughly five times in one hour.


Chain - Exp
--------------
0 200
1 220
2 240
3 260
4 280
5 300

Total: 1530 every chain 5
Five full chains per hour = 7650 exp/hr


Now, ToAU TP burn non merit parties usually average out at about 15K/hr when you factor in really good parties and really bad parties. Now lets make a tweak to SC+MB system...

Signet/Sigil (No sanction) gives certain bonuses.
Skillchains give exp bonuses if performed by 2 or more players (+10% Cap)
Magic Bursts give an exp bonus (+20% Cap)
Emp Rings and Corsair's roll would not stack, but mob exp bonus and chain bonuses would.

Skillchain Level:
Lv1: +5%
Lv2: +7%
Lv3: +10%

Magic Burst magic Tier
T1: 5%
T2/-ga1: 10%
T3/-ga2: 15%
T4/-ga3/AM1&2: 20%

BLU magic spells would have to be special case, in that all magical blu spells under Burst Affinity would count as Tier 2.

Level 65-66 party will have access to Level 3 skillchains and mages will have at best Tier 3 nukes (Excluding aga's due to links for this example)
Level 3 Skillchain + Tier 3 spell = 25% bonus exp. This bonus gets added on top of the chain bonus.

That same chain from earlier starts to look like this:

Chain - Exp +25%
--------------
0 200
1 490
2 500
3 510
4 530
5 550

Total: 2780 exp every chain 5
Five full chains per hour = 13,900 exp/hr

Now for merit mobs, SE can create some mobs that are level 84 ish that have really good defense and HP that would deter TP burning, but would allow for the flow of skillchain+Magic burst. Then adjust their base exp to 300. By this time, it will be Level 3 Skillchains and Tier 4 magic giving 30% Exp bonus:


Chain - Exp +30%
--------------
0 300
1 750
2 765
3 780
4 810
5 840

Total: 4245 per chain 5
Five full chains per hour = 21,225 exp/hr

Since you are killing at a slower pace, you don't have to worry about long repop timers whereas if you were to try to TP burn, you'll run out of mobs and have to wait for repops.

You can also take SC + MB incentives further where a MB gives a short range AoE effect of 2mp/tic refresh for 1 minute, and the skillchains give a 1 minute effect that is based on the element of a level 2 + skillchain such as +Str and Attack that diminishes over time for Fusion, Critical Hitrate and Dex for Fragmentation, so on and so forth.

[Spira]

I'm crossing my fingers for:

Einherjar: Treasure drop rate was adjusted, Alexandrite added to all normal mob treasure list

Something to make Einherjar more rewarding for people to attend/lead if they already have Eyepatch :/

they seriously need to up the abjuration drop rate from T1-3.

they seriously need to up the drop rate on a lot of things. it seems its usually either too high, or too low

[Max™]

Charm is only VE, not CE, last I checked.

I like to merit with Drk's, losing a hit now and then to RR + Guilly for 300~600 free damage totally sucks, especially when you sit at the same TP rate the rest of the time.

[Spira]

i dunno.. i was using Kani's tables for reference and it says 320 CE for charm

[BRP]

lol.. this system would also mean HNMS might actually give u a substantial chunk of EXP on their death too.... which would be kinda neat

I knew I picked Static Earring for a good reason!!

Oh wait, it wouldn't make a difference at all.

[ringthree]

they seriously need to up the abjuration drop rate from T1-3.

they seriously need to up the drop rate on a lot of things. it seems its usually either too high, or too low

I have always thought they had some kind of self-correcting averaging system for drops, that is reset whenever the server is taken down. That is why you get a certain amount of drops right after the server is up and horrible drop rates there after.

Everyone has their paranoid speculation, and that is mine.

[Max™]

i dunno.. i was using Kani's tables for reference and it says 320 CE for charm

WOW

Holy shit, I must have misread it when I glanced over it, assumed it was 320 VE.

Nin/Bst wut?

Flash gives 180 CE.

Bst/Nin, charm x 10 for 3k CE, get a SATA WS on you for CE/VE as you pop a jug > Snarl to Jug.

[hypnotizd]

Allow the White Mage spell Cure to affect CourierCarrie and we might have something here as far as BST tanking. Although CC has a lot of HP for farming piddly TW-EMs, its HP wouldn't last very long being main tank to something that is VT-IT. And a 5 min cooldown between CCs (unmerited) would put a damper on it.

[SephYuyX]

Also, is there really a need to still have the MB BLM nerf around?

[Seraphus]

WOW

Holy shit, I must have misread it when I glanced over it, assumed it was 320 VE.

Nin/Bst wut?

Flash gives 180 CE.

Bst/Nin, charm x 10 for 3k CE, get a SATA WS on you for CE/VE as you pop a jug > Snarl to Jug.

Even cooler that Charm is like on a 15 second timer, isn't it?