Non Rajas 6 Hit

[Ultimagi]

Wow...

Tamas Ring
MP+30 < Serket Ring, Vivian's Ring
INT+5 = Snow Ring
MND+5 = Aqua Ring
Enmity-3 < Trooper's Ring

There is no reason to have this ring unless you are leveling a job that is below level 50, or are a career Blue Mage and never use any other melee job, since Blue Magic is the only magic which uses both Intelligence and Mind at the same time.

Sattva Ring
HP+30 < Bomb Queen Ring, Bloodbead Ring
VIT+5 = Soil Ring
AGI+5 = Breeze Ring
Enmity +5 > Hercules's Ring, Mermaid's Ring

There is no reason to have this ring unless you are a career Paladin that never uses melee jobs and seriously think you need 2~3 more Enmity.

Rajas Ring
STR+5 = Flame Ring
DEX+5 = Thunder Ring
Store TP+5 > Ecphoria Ring
Subtle Blow > nothing

Strength and Dexterity are used together for all physical damage, Store TP +5 is the largest improvement in the slot for many jobs, with no sacrifice to Haste and little sacrifice to Accuracy, and there is no other way of getting Subtle Blow on a Ring. If you use any melee jobs, or even want to whack things with a staff, or god forbid use a 2-handed weapon on your Paladin for shits and giggles, you should have this ring.

[Acturus]

Wow...

Tamas Ring
MP+30 < Serket Ring, Vivian's Ring
INT+5 = Snow Ring
MND+5 = Aqua Ring
Enmity-3 < Trooper's Ring

I'm not carrying around 4 rings when one will do the job of all.

[Bregor]

Sattva Ring
HP+30 < Bomb Queen Ring, Bloodbead Ring
VIT+5 = Soil Ring
AGI+5 = Breeze Ring
Enmity +5 > Hercules's Ring, Mermaid's Ring

Sattva is enmity+3, which is even more of an argument for Rajas or gtfo.

[Hosom]

I'm not carrying around 4 rings when one will do the job of all.

It's that and then there is the part where Sattva does more for pld than he is saying.... Vit + Enmity for Rampart isn't found anywhere else... HP+ and Enmity + for HP sets...there are a lot more things it does than the individuals do, and being a career pld it was the best choice

[drwaffles]

Tamas vs. Rajas has been done to fucking death too many times. Summary:

Tamas is NOT simply a space-saver on account of the fact that no other ring allows you to take advantage of 30 MP, 3 -enmity and 5 INT or 5 MND at the same time for a single spell and without a HP penalty.

Rajas is great when Store TP is necessary and nice for appropriate WS.

Calling someone an idiot for choosing Tamas indicates that you yourself are, in fact, the idiot and should stop riding the melee jobs' collective dick.

[mdkuser]

Like other said, alternative to rajas is ACP body but tbh, you better use acp body +dusk gloves +fumas+rajas... this set up is better than any hachiman set up if you do not have usukane feet ( requires you to WS in a bit more stp though I think).

Now if you use both usukane feet and body, well you can use two snipers on rings. But using rajas ring as well, allows you to keep a 6-hit with sword strap... so in the end rajas is the best ring for sam.

[Julian]

Usu feet are easy as hell to get, and very cheap to upgrade.

Also, Tamas gives -enmity at the same time that it gives INT or MND, hence, it's an unique ring. It also gives some MP (minor) without any HP penalty. I could likewise easily argue that sniper's+1 is better to melee in provided you don't need the store tp to reach some x-hit build.

[Tagus]

I think you would have to clarify what other pieces of gear you have available to say for sure. I'm relatively certain that when putting together a six-hit gear setup on Sam without Rajas or Usu pieces, parses have proven that you should focus on ACC instead. It's kind of the same thing as trying a Haste build without Byakko's (or Usu). The sacrifices you need to make for the build are bigger than the gains. I'd be interested if somebody could prove me wrong though!

[Shinryuu]

Even if you're on mages 80% of the time and SAM 20% of the time you're going to get more out of Rajas than out of Tamas'. Are you sure you're not just too lazy to buy 2-3 more rings?

By the way, when people in this topic say ACP body they mean that next to the Store TP, there's ACC. If I see you do it differently I will fucking murder you.

[SephYuyX]

Hi, the problem isnt that you cant find stats on other rings, it's that you cant have all the other rings equiped at the same time.

Each ring is best suited for the type of job they go with, you cant replace them. Stop fucking arguing it, and stop telling people one ring > all when you dont know what jobs they use mostly and prefer.

Yeah, I could nuke with Breeze, but then if im at full mp I lose out on 30mp and also the -enmity, yeah I could tank with Bomb, but id lose out on the +enmity, yeah I could WS with a Flame, but id lose out on the DEX.

HUUUR, how i make incomparable comparisons

[drwaffles]

Even if you're on mages 80% of the time and SAM 20% of the time you're going to get more out of Rajas than out of Tamas'. Are you sure you're not just too lazy to buy 2-3 more rings?

By the way, when people in this topic say ACP body they mean that next to the Store TP, there's ACC. If I see you do it differently I will fucking murder you.

I had an Aqua, a Snow, a Sorcerer's, an Omega, a Balrahn's, a Jelly, a Vivian and a Trooper's available to be paired with my Tamas. Laziness had nothing to do with it, the name of the game was optimization.

[Nevex]

Tamas vs. Rajas has been done to fucking death too many times. Summary:

Tamas is NOT simply a space-saver on account of the fact that no other ring allows you to take advantage of 30 MP, 3 -enmity and 5 INT or 5 MND at the same time for a single spell and without a HP penalty.

Rajas is great when Store TP is necessary and nice for appropriate WS.

Calling someone an idiot for choosing Tamas indicates that you yourself are, in fact, the idiot and should stop riding the melee jobs' collective dick.

This.
People need to stop pretending that you're not using more than a stat on Tamas at the same time, because you are.

The main point of Tamas is the extra enmity reduction on nearly all spells on most mages; the argument on BLU being the only job that benefits of this due the INT+MND combo is extremely stupid, since the only spells that use those stats together that are worth casting (Firespit and Regurgitation) are hardly ever used in normal situations.

For those who are perfectionists on mage jobs the enmity reduction on most spells is most welcome, exactly like a "perfect" 6-hit build on 2-handers is.

Just because it's less spectacular and noticiable, it doesn't mean it's less important.

Rajas is indeed a really nice ring and by far the best one available for 2-handers, however it only takes a new gear piece that doesn't suck that allows them to break the 6-hit line without sacrificing haste/acc and it suddenly becomes much less useful (read: not useless, just less useful).
Most people didn't even care about it before 2h weapons were buffed...

[Cream Soda]

Hell I have Rajas. It doesn't even live up to the hype on my sam. I only use it for Y/G WS macro so I don't have to buy another str ring. Yea, I has a 6hit. He's a pretty cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Julian]

This.
People need to stop pretending that you're not using more than a stat on Tamas at the same time, because you are.

The main point of Tamas is the extra enmity reduction on nearly all spells on most mages; the argument on BLU being the only job that benefits of this due the INT+MND combo is extremely stupid, since the only spells that use those stats together that are worth casting (Firespit and Regurgitation) are hardly ever used in normal situations.

For those who are perfectionists on mage jobs the enmity reduction on most spells is most welcome, exactly like a "perfect" 6-hit build on 2-handers is.

Just because it's less spectacular and noticiable, it doesn't mean it's less important.

Rajas is indeed a really nice ring and by far the best one available for 2-handers, however it only takes a new gear piece that doesn't suck that allows them to break the 6-hit line without sacrificing haste/acc and it suddenly becomes much less useful (read: not useless, just less useful).
Most people didn't even care about it before 2h weapons were buffed...

this, especially the last paragraph.

[Spekkio]

when considering the -enmity you must also consider it in the scope of your other gear. generally a mage, especially a whm or sch, who will regularly wear -enmity gear already. running down quickly common items in common slots:
HH bomb: -1
Novia: -7
blessed mitts: -3
trooper's ring (after serket MP spent): -4
errant cape: -5
theta sash (good for use after belt MP spent): -5
blessed trousers: -5
blessed pumps (mid cast macro on cure): -4
tallied up: -34

so the marginal gain of adding -3 enmity in that setup is 3/66 ~4.5% reduction in enmity.

in addition to that enmity reduction, cure5 for example gets a roughly 17 HP cure bonus (if my math is right) from the 5 mnd on the ring. considering the demand for aristocrat's coat by career whm (on my server a marginal increase of about 1.7m over the NQ) which likely amounts to roughly the same increase, i'd say this is not an insignificant boost. or how about the sch casting stoneskinga? this provides both amplification to the effect and dampening of the considerable enmity generation caused by hitting so many targets at once. the list of applications goes on and on.

while i will say that the value of a rajas to a melee is greater than the value of a tamas to a mage in my opinion, this must be weighted by the time spent on those jobs. if i raided 2 times out of 100 on my bst (my only melee job at current and i use the term loosely here) and the other 98 on my blm or whm, which ring would be more valuable to me? i chose the tamas and do it without regret to this day. you may choose rajas. that's fine. just don't tell me i'm stupid or made a bad choice or otherwise when from my position it's easily the best choice.

[Ultimagi]

I think people skimmed over the part where I said... IF YOU USE A MELEE JOB.

[Xfaustx]

apparently you missed the part where he said "hes using multiple mage jobs" during all events.

[Wolfknight]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but before ACP bodies were an option, even if you had a rajas and no usukane you still have to either give up a haste slot for hachi hands or feet or take a significant reduction in accuracy for askar body for a reasonable 6 hit build, right?

The hachiman kote +1, brutal, and ecphoria ring combo gives you the necessary store TP and only takes up 1 potential haste slot (hands) with a very minimal accuracy cut. I don't see how this is so gimp that a SAM using this would never get a merit party invite. It's not the absolute greatest setup in the world, but it's far from terrible.

the huge problem with this set-up is you have to ws in in +10 stp which means either giving up hands for alky large str lose, unless you have ideal set-up[AF+1 legs and HQ Hachiman feet].

Pretty much the same here...with playing Pld for every event but Nyzul/Salvage I would be pretty stupid to drop my Sattva just to improve Sam, which I don't use for events...and because I'll be healing Salvage and Nyzul on Rdm soon I won't even be playing Sam for anything other than meriting so...getting a Rajas just to merit with is what I consider one of the biggest wastes of a CoP ring in my opinion...

NO, sattva doesn't offer nearly what tamas does for a mage sorry, and you're saying your ls -never- has you DD, even if you were on pld 4 times as much as sam, you'd still get alot more out of rajas. Sattva is at best a macro peice now with atonement you should be idling in acc rings, so you going to tell me that +1 enmity on things, +5 vit on rampart, and +30 hp for hp up set-up is more than rajas for sam, cause if so thats fucking terrible logic only defense for sattva is if you're a NON-pld tank, since pld has two enmity rings, where as rdm/blu/nin don't.

[Bregor]

Why are you donkeys talking about Tamas?

I would be pretty stupid to drop my Sattva just to improve Sam

OP has Sattva, which can be replaced by other easily obtainable rings. Tamas v. Rajas is much different than Sattva v. Rajas.

[Hosom]

the huge problem with this set-up is you have to ws in in +10 stp which means either giving up hands for alky large str lose, unless you have ideal set-up[AF+1 legs and HQ Hachiman feet].


NO, sattva doesn't offer nearly what tamas does for a mage sorry, and you're saying your ls -never- has you DD, even if you were on pld 4 times as much as sam, you'd still get alot more out of rajas. Sattva is at best a macro peice now with atonement you should be idling in acc rings, so you going to tell me that +1 enmity on things, +5 vit on rampart, and +30 hp for hp up set-up is more than rajas for sam, cause if so thats fucking terrible logic only defense for sattva is if you're a NON-pld tank, since pld has two enmity rings, where as rdm/blu/nin don't.

I chose the ring that my ls would get the most out of. I am Pld for 100% of the events that we currently do, therefore obtaining a Rajas in place of my Sattva would NOT be an improvement, because I would only be gaining the Rajas to merit in, which is...sorry, no, I'm not giving up a key item in multiple of my Pld sets in order to have a 6 hit on Colibri, when I don't NEED said ring to have the 6 hit, it would be the opposite of efficient.

You're also mistaken that you're only using one stat on Sattva at a time. My point in bringing up Rampart is that no other ring gives Vit and Enmity. The point in bringing up HP sets is that no other +HP ring also gives +Enmity for Cure IV swaps.

Ask any Pld who owns a Sattva, it is just as important as Tamas and Rajas to us, and while you could get some of the same stats without it, you wouldn't get the combined effect of it without it.

Yes, post Atonement, I have replaced my Sattva with Acc rings in my idle set, but as others have said, Rajas is replaced for TPing now with better gear choices.

CoP rings are case by case, the choice of what is best for one person is not necessarily what is best for everyone. Because of this, the original question posed was not what CoP ring should I replace my Sattva with. The original question was what are some other choices that people use for 6 hit, which I do have, I was just looking at alternatives to optimize my sam without gimping my Pld.