Magic: The Gathering

**zoobernut** · 2012-02-03 16:17

Removal is always king in limited/sealed. If you have enough removal you will win. At the pre-release in the first round of top 8 playoffs I went up against a deck that was almost the same as mine, red/black/white and he ended up winning only because he had more removal than me.

**Urza!** · 2012-02-04 18:46

Ugh..my roommate has spent a total of $0 on dka and has opened every single mythic in sealed pools, draft picks, and prize packs. Including a triple dark mike draft that included a sorin....

**Xerlic** · 2012-02-06 11:56

After doing a couple drafts with DKA, I've realized that any tribal deck running lords is pretty damn good. I thought I had a pretty good W/U fliers deck on FNM and got stomped two rounds in a row by really aggressive R/G players with multiple Immerwolves.

I did another draft after that and had the mindset of forcing something other than W/U else just to get experience. p1p1 I open a Lingering Souls. p1p2 I get passed a Drogskol Captain. OK, guess I'm going spirits. Unfortunately, I didn't read the signals well and the guy to my right got the lich as his p1p1 so he was cutting blue but passing white, so I had to splash green to fill out my curve. The good thing is he passed another Drogskol Captain pack 3. I ended up going 2-1, which isn't bad, but I felt I could have done better if I didn't have to run green. My fault for trying to force the archetype because of my early picks. I'm really bad at knowing when to get out of a color in draft.

I also managed to cast Elbrus and stick him on a token which flew over his board to summon the demon. It's definitely not a winning draft strategy by any means imo, but it was pretty awesome to see it play out.

**Norellicus** · 2012-02-07 10:22

I did a draft at FNM last week and ended up going 1-2 despite having what I thought was a fairly usable if uninspiring deck (my two best cards were Increasing Ambition and Skirsdag High Priest, with some black flying or intimidate and a pair of Boneyard Wurms and a single Kindercatch for lack of anything more useful). The reason for my losses almost always seemed to come down to mana; in both match losses, game 1 was mana screwed (3 mana in hand, didn't draw any and couldn't pull either of the Mulches I had in deck), while game 2 was mana flooded (3 in hand, drew 8 more before giving up the ghost). The won match went almost perfectly by contrast, though it could be partly attributed to an early Mulch in game 2 allowing me to pull out the short mana clump I had there, allowing me to draw the other creatures needed to keep pressure on the table.

My question is, was all that just exceptional luck (both good and bad, demonstrably) or am I running too much mana to the point that even shuffling doesn't help spread it out? I usually try for ~15 creatures, ~8 instant/sorceries, and then fill out 17 mana split by dominant deck color.

I know I'm not a great player and I didn't stand a chance of winning that draft since other people had some way better decks than mine (two Sorins were pulled iirc), but I like to try to improve anywhere I can that's within my means, at least...

**Tricen** · 2012-02-07 10:26

23/17 is about right

**zoobernut** · 2012-02-07 10:30

Sounds like bad shuffling technique to me or a very top heavy mana curve. 17 mana is decent in a 40 card deck depending on your mana curve. In a 17 land deck I would want 3 lands to cast almost everything in the deck except for a few bombs if your deck is more top heavy then 18 or 19 lands would be better. My sealed deck had 17 lands and it had 1 card at 5 cmc and 4 cards at 4 cmc and the rest were 3 cmc or less.

**Norellicus** · 2012-02-07 10:36

I'd have to look at the curve again, it didn't seem top heavy, but it wasn't on the low side either. Kind of even spread from 2 to 7...

Really I just didn't have any good options in the draft lol, I had a little bit of everything at the end of the DKA pack but then blue and white died almost immediately on pack 2 and the red cards I was seeing were awful. I kind of had to shoehorn it into the black/green options that I was seeing.

As for shuffling, during the game I typically shuffle like this two or three times.

Spoiler: show

(Allowing my opponent the chance to cut after of course)

Between games and initial setup, I'll usually take the deck and divide it into six piles, like so:

1 5 3
6 2 4

Dividing in order of numbers, dealing one card to each pile until the deck runs out in my hands. Then I take the piles and sweep them into my hand (so the first pile I touch is the bottom pile on the deck): 6, 2, 4, 1, 5, 3. I then do the above shuffle once or twice, though usually I'll keep doing it until my opponent is ready for me to cut their deck so it sometimes gets shuffled upwards of 7-10 times.

**Xerlic** · 2012-02-07 13:10

In between games, I pile shuffle then mash shuffle at least 6 times then riffle shuffle at least 6 times. People have thrown around the figure that you need to shuffle 8 times in order to get a deck sufficiently randomized, so I always shoot for that as the minimum number of shuffles anytime a card calls for shuffling your deck.

**Norellicus** · 2012-02-07 13:18

I can't shuffle fast enough to justify that many during the game, and I've actually heard from multiple sources that 3 times is the point where you hit maximum randomization...so it seems we have mixed information there

Edit: Hmm, googling says my sources are patently wrong. Perhaps latching onto the "for casual play, 2 to 4 is enough" part of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuffling#Randomization

Is there a recommended way to shuffle that isn't riffling? I've seen what that does to decks of casino style cards, I can't bear the thought with my deckbuilders

**Xerlic** · 2012-02-08 09:02

I'd just mash shuffle like in the video you posted.

When I riffle shuffle, I only do the corners to avoid arching the cards. I think this is how Conley Woods also shuffles. I used to do the riffle shuffle and then bridge the cards years which usually got some strange looks. Haha.

**Tricen** · 2012-02-08 10:52

I accidentally invented the way I shuffle. Well I doubt I was the first but people keep asking how I do it lol. It's hard to explain but it can be very fast for shuffling.

**Olo401** · 2012-02-12 05:37

Top 8 at PT Honolulu is set and it's STACKED.. included in the group are three legends of the game - Jon Finkel, Brian Kibler and Jelger Wiegersma.

You can watch the live webcast at 3:45EST (or review the past two days of competition) at http://www.twitch.tv/magicprotour

**Xerlic** · 2012-02-12 09:06

Finkel had some pretty good matches. There were a couple times in multiple games where it looked like he was in really bad shape, but he managed to pull off some good wins. I also like how he doesn't go nuts flicking his his cards like Kibler or PV.

http://www.twitch.tv/magicprotour/b/308264689

@~1:45:00 he's playing Chikara Nikajima during the limited portion. At one point Nakajima's board had a Skaab Goliath with a Cleaver, a Relentless Skaab with no counter and a Deranged Assistant. Finkel only has a Falkenrath Noble and he's also down in life. He looked like he was in bad shape, but he pulled off a couple clutch plays in a row to win the game.

@~6:30:00 he's playing Samuel Estratti during standard constructed. During game 3 it looks like he's about to lose, but he has two really good top decks in a row.

**Olo401** · 2012-02-12 21:35

What an amazing top 8.. if you get a chance, go re-watch the semifinal match between Kibler & Finkel. Probably the best match in PT history.

Grats to Brian Kibler on the big win!

**Weltall** · 2012-02-12 21:42

Mike Long vs. Justice 1997 was the greatest set ever played.

Finkel should have won that game if he would have just slowed down a little.

**oldoldman** · 2012-02-13 15:45

Was that the match where Long won after siding out his only win condition?

**Weltall** · 2012-02-13 16:14

Yes. He noticed in a previous game his opponent conceded instead of letting him go through all of the Pros Bloom motions. He bet it all by siding out his only win conditions for another tutor and just performed the combo motion extremely slow so his opponent would concede the next time he went off.

Best match ever played.

**oldoldman** · 2012-02-13 16:46

A bit tainted by how huge of a cheater Long was

**oldoldman** · 2012-02-13 17:06

Just watched last game of finkel kibler. WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T HE BLOCK?

**Weltall** · 2012-02-13 17:36

He blocks he wins right? I can't remember the board state now, but at the time I believe if he would have made the obvious play (9/10 times he makes) then he wins the next turn. He just needed to slow the hell down a bit and think more.

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