Magic: The Gathering

[Weltall]

I actually think Killing Wave my make aggro (zombie) decks as well....

You start out fast and get opponent down to 8-10. You cast Killing Wave for 3-4 life and your opponent almost has no choice but to ditch his or her creatures, and then you pay 9-12 life and finish them off.

Any thoughts?

[Zilong]

Problem I can see with that plan is for Killing Wave to be at its full effectiveness, you ought to be playing against another aggro deck, and that would make killing wave a double edged sword since you're probably also hurting for life then.

[Krandor]

Killing Wave will be ass in a control deck, but yeah, in Zombies it will fucking nasty since you can just bring your shit right back.

[Xerlic]

Killing Wave isn't a control card because it gives the opponent a choice of board wipe (bad) or life loss (not bad). 99% of the time against control, you will just take the life hit since it's pretty irrelevant and keep the superior board presence since you have the inevitability. BSZ is strictly better in any type of control deck imo.

This card would work well in zombies or any type of BR burn deck against another creature heavy deck. You sac gravecrawlers and recast them from the yard or sac messengers and they come back with undying. Meanwhile your opponent has to either sac creatures (bad) or lose life (bad).

[zoobernut]

Yeah I was thinking killing wave in zombies with grave crawler is going to be amazing. You only need to pay life to save one creature then bring all the crawlers back next turn. Or use other ways to bring your zombies back. Killing wave might also work in esper delver if you are behind in creatures in a mirror match or a match against another aggro deck. You could drop down killing wave for a fair amount and then play lingering souls.

[Hank]

So, cloudshift will let a creature dodge removal spells? I guess because, when it comes back into play, it's a "new" target, and what the removal was targeting is no longer valid?

[Krandor]

Cloud shift won't work on untargetted removal like board wipes or sacrifices (edict, Lilliana, etc), but otherwise yes.

[Hank]

Because cloudshift would resolve before the effects of the other spells, I assume? And thanks!

[miokomioko]

So, Cloudshift works well with Evoked creatures, no? Pay the cheaper Evoke cost just for "enters battlefield" effects, but flicker them with Cloudshift, and get a 2nd instance of the effect and it gets to stay in play? Does that sound right? Or is the forced sacrifice still waiting on the stack with a legal target when it gets back?

At the very least, you can double most evoke effects with 1 white.

[Hank]

Yes, two effects and stays in play.

[finalwolf]

So, Cloudshift works well with Evoked creatures, no? Pay the cheaper Evoke cost just for "enters battlefield" effects, but flicker them with Cloudshift, and get a 2nd instance of the effect and it gets to stay in play? Does that sound right? Or is the forced sacrifice still waiting on the stack for when it gets back?

At the very least, you can double most evokes with 1 white.

That works. 2 ETB effect if the creature with Evoke has it, and a permanent creature.
The force sacrifice only applies to the creature that entered the battlefield with Evoke. The creature that came onto the battlefield via Cloudshift is considered a new creature, in which the evoke effect has no relation to.

[Tomiko]

Because of Temporal Mastery being shown, Personal Tutor went from 13$ to 26$ before I went to bed last night. Sold out in most online vendors. This morning Personal Tutor is sitting at 40$. That's for Legacy, since mystical tutor is banned there.

Noxious Revival to put it back on top of deck for 2 life.
can use instant draw to draw into it and cast it on at instant speed.
So many set-ups to activate Temporal Mastery for miracle cost.
Mirri's Guile, Divining top, Sylvan Library, etc

Just a reminder that Temporal Mastery exiles on resolution.

I also don't think Brainstorm/Jace will get banned because there's just so many ways to set up draws. BS/Jace only affect it once its in your hand. Top would be the bigger offender since you can set up your draws every turn with just 1 card.

[Krandor]

Mulldrifter + Cloudshift yes prz

[Hank]

So, since Miracle doesn't make you reveal every card you draw, who's to say it IS the first card you drew in a turn? Other than the honor system.

I mean, it says you have to cast it when you draw it, but does that mean you have to keep it separate from your hand if, say, you want to take a look at the board? Essentially revealing that you have a card with Miracle.

If someone DOES put it in their hand and then tries to cast it, could you cry foul? Or are players expected to watch where each drawn card goes in their opponents hand after they draw it? What if they draw two cards at the start of their turn, making it harder to discern which was first?

[zoobernut]

Each card draw is a separate event so as soon as you draw the card you have to reveal it and cast it if you want. If you don't reveal it and cast it as soon as you draw it then you forfeit your chance to cast it for its miracle cost.

Say a player gets to draw two cards at the beginning of their turn (howling mine for instance) each card draw is separate so they draw the first look at it and if it is a miracle card they must choose to cast it or not before they draw the second card (at least I am assuming that is how it will work to keep things clear) if they draw the second card without casting the first card for its miracle cost then they no longer have that option. If they do cast the first card then it resolves having its effect then they continue on to the other card draw.

[finalwolf]

When multiple draws happen in an instant, like draw 3 cards, person draws one at a time. That's tournament style. Most people normally would grab the top 3 cards from the deck in a single action. Person doing this and using a card with Miracle should expect the other person to call a judge.

ah, zoobernut got it. was typing this and playing a game at the same time.

[Hank]

How would that work with, say, Brainstorm? Isn't that a paradox? You would have to cast it before Brainstorm would resolve, but you can only cast it because it resolves.

[Hank]

Resolve isn't the right word. But still, would you then choose which to keep from the remaining two? Or must you choose the first without looking at the other two? Or is it the honor system that the one you chose was the first you drew?

[Weltall]

How would that work with, say, Brainstorm? Isn't that a paradox? You would have to cast it before Brainstorm would resolve, but you can only cast it because it resolves.

If I am understanding you correctly:

Scenario 1:

Cast Brainstorm at the end of your opponents turn and put the Temporal in order slot 2 to draw it first next turn.

Scenario 2:

Untap on your turn, cast Brainstorm during your upkeep, Brainstorm resolves, draw your card for brainstorm (being miracle card), cast it, it resolves, and then proceed to your draw step.

As for scenario 2, I played a LOT more magic back in the Tempest era (when the stack kind of started) so this may have changed. It would have worked back in the day. I think it would work today. Someone assist?

[Hank]

What I mean is, Brainstorm has you draw three cards, then put two back.

I cast Brainstorm, draw a miracle card as my first of three. Do I now have to cast it without looking at my other two? If so, Miracle card resolves, now I draw my remaining two?