Magic: The Gathering

**Tomiko** · 2012-04-21 02:46

Originally Posted by Krandor

We had a pretty big discussion about Legacy and all the AVR cards today @ FNM. The general opinion seems to be that nothing is getting banned, because even with the miracle shenanigans w/ brainstorm, Cavern of Souls craps on Blue so hard for Legacy format it will likely balance out.

Personally I still think a ban of something is coming, most likely Brainstorm (easier to ban brainstorm then 3-4 of the miracle cards), though Jace, the Wallet Shredder will likely hang around since his CMC and not being instant speed keeps it fair.

....can't believe I just used the word fair to describe Jace.

I seriously doubt Brainstorm is getting banned. If it did, let's look at what's left to enable Miracles:

-Jace, TMS
-Scroll Rack (to put them back on top, doesn't draw them though)
-Sensei's Divining Top (Filter your draws every turn, draw miracles on your opponent's turn)
-Lim-Dul's Vault, Personal Tutor, Ponder, Preordain, etc to set up your draws.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Brainstorm simply isn't the problem if a Miracle becomes too OP. Top would be much more of a problem since every deck can use it and it is quite time consuming (which it was already banned in Modern for).

If anything gets banned, it would be Temporal Mastery because the Delver decks have quite a fast clock and taking 1-2 extra turns is enough to do a substantial amount of damage. I still don't think it will be banned though unless it starts putting up Survival results.

**Weltall** · 2012-04-21 11:34

Most legacy games end with 3 lands on each side of the table. Jace is by no means going to get banned in legacy. Top seems like it could see banning if decks get out of hand with miracle. Legacy should be powerful and unfair though, IMO.

**Krandor** · 2012-04-21 18:39

Alright, something I just thought about.

You bounce the cast from exile Hawk w/ Venser, but then cast it while its still exiled. Wtf happens then?

Venser specifies permanent, and says nothing about card. Does that mean you effectively cloned the hawk since you're supposed to return the one you bounced, whereas the one you cast is a different permanent?

**Tricen** · 2012-04-21 18:52

Different object when changing zones. Nothing happens.

**Syntex** · 2012-04-21 20:15

Originally Posted by Chrius

I'm interested in seeing where this goes. I have no legal knowledge on the matter, but isn't privately buying something sort of buyer beware? He left with the cards, they were available to browse, not like you pulled the ol switcheroo (which i strongly suspect him of)

Exactly what I was thinking. Why he didn't even pull them out to look at them is beyond me and if he is so good and identifying the cards then why didn't he look at them closer earlier. They are legit though as I bought them from a friend for 1200 myself and did many tests on them to prove they were real. I honestly think he just got buyers remorse or thought I'm some stupid kid who will try to make everything right if he makes a big deal about it. I've got a lot of shit to support my side and all he has is his word(hi-res scans of cards, witness, cash transaction, 3 people who know the cards were legit, disclaimer cards were as is and the deal was final ect).

**zoobernut** · 2012-04-22 00:44

I had a similar experience selling some cards. Guy went through the entire collection looked at all the cards, knew what he was getting, he even had a friend helping him look through the cards. I told him a price he countered with lower we negotiated to an agreed upon price of x dollars then he sends me an angry email later saying I ripped him off. I know very well that all the cards he got were collectively worth more than what he paid but he was having buyers remorse because he didn't get that single card worth more than what he paid for all the cards. I hate douche bags like that.

**Myrrh_Quetz** · 2012-04-22 01:06

I had a friend buy a guys collection for 100 bucks. Ended up having over 1200 dollars worth of cards in it. Sold to a local game store for about 800 total. He was pretty happy.

**Cantih** · 2012-04-23 04:19

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...8u531rg_en.jpg
ehehehehehe

While my initial complaints still stand, the "Hi, I'm Avacyn, and I'm going to wreck your shit" is a welcome turn of events.

**Xerlic** · 2012-04-23 06:30

The picture would have been better if it had an Insectile Aberration in the web for the artwork.

**Hank** · 2012-04-23 07:19

I'm sure that's mostly aimed at Delver decks, but I also think it's funny that the big to-do, lore wise, is the angels in this set. Forget the vampires and werewolves, beware the spiders.

**zoobernut** · 2012-04-23 10:28

This set is stupid. When the purpose of a card is so transparent and it is so obvious that they made a card for the sole reason of hosing a deck archetype it takes away from the flavor and fun of a set. I am not saying it is a bad thing to have balance specially since that card won't see a ton of play but it is just so damn transparent. They used to be more subtle about the interactions between cards in that way.

**Weltall** · 2012-04-23 10:58

Anyone else miss the days where Enchantments were useful, and some of the strongest spells in the game? orz

Standard magic needs more combo...and by combo I don't mean a creature with a sword.

**zoobernut** · 2012-04-23 11:29

I agree. Magic is getting more and more simple as creatures get more and more powerful. First they took away land destruction then decent enchantments worth playing and now they are systematically rendering control useless. Pretty soon we will all be playing the exact same aggro decks...

**Ghost_Wheel22** · 2012-04-23 12:32

Remember the days when Necropotence was ran in decks designed to fight decks built around Necropotence?

I miss those days too.

**Weltall** · 2012-04-23 13:49

I meant more along the lines of Dream Halls / Oath of Druids / Survival of the Fittest / Sneak Attack / ETC, but Necro was fun too imo

I was actually with Wescoe and Brian Davis when they originally built the first PT winning version of that deck; they were staying over at my house when it was built haha. I've had my Wescoe signed Necros for about 9 years lol.

**Krandor** · 2012-04-23 13:53

Recurring Nightmare/Survival of the Fittest was my favorite standard deck ever, such a badass combo.

**Weltall** · 2012-04-23 14:06

My friend Stephen rocked that deck forever. My favorite standard deck of all-time was Replenish. Had that deck down to a science.

The deck I absolutely HATED to play against the most was any of the mono green or red/green Plow Under decks. I would rather lose on turn 1 to Necro than play against Plow Under....

1Forest Elf
2Port
3 Port Them Land Forest Albino Troll
4-6 Some combo of 1-2 Plow Under
DIE DIE DIE DIE I HATE YOU

**Krandor** · 2012-04-23 17:52

Ah tempest/urza block standard. Decks as broken as Cawblade, except that every deck was that broken.

**Xerlic** · 2012-04-24 10:28

Am I alone in not being too excited about triple AVR draft?

**Weltall** · 2012-04-24 10:30

I am actually looking forward to it

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