Turtle PLD to DD PLD: When to make the switch?

[The Q]

Currently I am at level 52 and two levels ago had started trying to use a DD setup rather than a Turtle setup. For reference here are the gear setups currently:

Both
Weapon: T. M. Espadon
Shield: R. K. Army shield
Neck: Parade Gorget
Ears: Buckler and Mercenary's
Hands: Gothic gauntlets
Feet: AF
Back: High Breath

Turtle
Head: I. M. Armet
Body: I. M. Curiass
Rings: Phalanx & Verve
Belt: Brave or Life
Legs: I. M. Cuisses
Ammo: Happy egg

DD
Head: Valkyrie's mask
Body: Luisant Haubert
Rings: Woodsmans
Belt: Life
Legs: Iron Ram Breeches
Ammo: Hume satchet

Parties usually are more comfortable with me going turtle. Going DD I am noticing a significant damage increase but in some parties I just get hammered for significantly more than I would in turtle.

Am I trying to transition too early? Am I doin it wrong on gear selection? Any general PLD advice?

Also, is it just me or do a lot of people feel the need to try and tell how to tank even when doing a good job? I've had people tell me no brainers like "stack vitality!" to outright boneheaded suggestions like eating riceballs (WAT!?).

[Neosutra]

Hybrid turtle tank is fine till vorpal blade. Once you get to 60ish you can just sub nin and share hate with other DDs in the party.

As for now, it depends on what you are fighting, but wear shield gear when you can, acc/def where you cant, and use tacos/sushi based on the situation.

Only you can tell when you will best serve the party by adding some more damage or simply keeping it off the melees so they can do a bit more.

After looking at your gear though, just stick with DD build, and swap food based on situation.

[Darlantan]

What Neosutra said.

I guess, basicly anything you can hit enough with the DD gear swaps, its worth switching for (generally, vt mobs). If its somethig the DD gear wont make a noticiable difference in hit rate and overall damage, obviously dont. This will happen if you are overcamping, which, then again, you shouldnt.

Also, is it just me or do a lot of people feel the need to try and tell how to tank even when doing a good job? I've had people tell me no brainers like "stack vitality!" ...

People are stupid.

[noodles355]

Only you can tell when you will best serve the party by adding some more damage or simply keeping it off the melees so they can do a bit more.

Adding more damage will help keep it off the other melees more than turtling up ever will in exp.

Use Hybrid gear from as low as 30-40. If you're getting eaten by mobs then you're overcamping. Stop fighting colibri at 52 and Imps at 64.

[Wolfknight]

I've done "hybrid" since 30 now, worked pretty well using this set-up now:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...dama/43pld.jpg

[Enedin]

Stop overcamping. Especially at low levels. People just love to overcamp stuff, like go to Korroloka at level 14. Fighting VT-low IT mobs is best, if you're fighting higher you won't get good exp with either DD or Turtle anyway.

[The Q]

Stop overcamping. Especially at low levels. People just love to overcamp stuff, like go to Korroloka at level 14. Fighting VT-low IT mobs is best, if you're fighting higher you won't get good exp with either DD or Turtle anyway.

Any overcamping is not by my choice, trust me.

A lot of the time there aren't the right jobs to put together a good party and I end up having to take what I can get.

And by that I mean invites. They're kinda slow even on PLD (which may be the time I'm playing).

[Therin]

A good rule of thumb is that if you're overhunting (mobs giving 200 EXP or above per kill), go for defense. If they're giving below 200 EXP a kill and you're going for quick chains, go for damage.

It's not going to be applicable 100% of the time, but that rule of thumb should hold true in most situations.

[Weeks]

I got pounded pretty hard trying Lesser Colibri at 54 in DD gear. It wasn't until level 57 that I felt dropping Defender and wearing offensive gear was as effective as turtling up. The level is dependent to some degree on the party makeup, of course. On birds, without a BRD or COR you're pretty useless offensively, and the overall party kill speed is going to be too slow for you to be taking 120-150 damage per hit.

[hypnotizd]

Maybe I was doing it wrong when I leveled PLD to 66. I just stayed turtle the whole way (lolPLD DD) and got 3 heavy DDs (SAM, RNG, DRG, etc) RDM and BRD/COR. Every party I had was ~15k/hr on Colibri. Never heard one complaint about me not doing enough damage or not doing my job properly. Only ever got compliments about how well I played PLD. So to each their own.

[Chen]

usually it's not worth it, in ahturghan you nearly always over camp on lesser colibri, colibri and imps/jnun, so they'll hit you really hard.

if you're in a good exp party setup as pld (pld rdm brd dd dd dd), be smart, turtle and then the rdm won't be curebombing you, instead they'll be able to haste melees.

like the above poster, i got only got compliments as i leveled PLD especially in aht urghan, turtled, kept hate and let the hasted/cor buffed dd's do their thing.

i did however swap in hauby+1,amemet+1/snipers+1 for vorpal etc, even in mostly hq gear the ws's still pretty much sucked, i am a taru though!

[Thoreau]

I actually enjoyed playing turtle and was fortunate enough to be asked to tank all the way until my last ding to 75 (which was in a merit group w/ LS members so there was no chance I was going to keep hate anyways).

My typical recommendation would be start out turtle and bring some DD gear to switch in when you feel you are not getting pounded too bad.

[Panthera]

Soon as you hit 55, forget about keeping hate. Rampage, Sidewinder etc make keeping hate near impossible. Turtle Tanking is about as 2004 as Evasion Tanking for ninja. 55 just ninja (like everyone else) to help mitigate damage. You're not gonna have hate anyway, so Provoke really is no loss.

[Vaxx]

Soon as you hit 55, forget about keeping hate. Rampage, Sidewinder etc make keeping hate near impossible. Turtle Tanking is about as 2004 as Evasion Tanking for ninja. 55 just ninja (like everyone else) to help mitigate damage. You're not gonna have hate anyway, so Provoke really is no loss.

Turtle tank works if you choose to go that route.

I went turtle tank all the way to 74, keeping hate almost always. With brd and rdm, mp isn't a problem so hate really shouldn't be if you almost exclusively use cure 4 on yourself and melee. Spread out your ja's, using 1 early in the fight. If we weren't fighting colibri I'd use a 200-300 tp spirits on the fights ja's were down. I only lost hate momentarily in a few parties that I remember. Well geared drks who spammed SE guillo early in the fight, and ridill wars.

I made most of my parties though, with brd and rdm, overcamping with 180-200 base exp per kill. Also, I'm a taru.

[hypnotizd]

Soon as you hit 55, forget about keeping hate. Rampage, Sidewinder etc make keeping hate near impossible. Turtle Tanking is about as 2004 as Evasion Tanking for ninja. 55 just ninja (like everyone else) to help mitigate damage. You're not gonna have hate anyway, so Provoke really is no loss.

Seriously wut? I feel like Aht Urghan has dumbed down everyones exp party experience. Or maybe too many merit parties have made you forget how to play in the mid 50s? I never lost hate for more than a couple seconds due to spike hate when tanking on PLD. I hate playing with tanks who think they cant tank and then don't try. This is stupid and makes them a waste of space in a party. If you arn't going to tank might as well fill your roll with a DD/NIN.

[hagun]

Sorry but NIN sub in EXP for PLD is just dumb. Pld during those levels isn't gonna put up numbers like your staple DD. While you should gear toward offense, you should always have Defender up. You should always be taking hits with as little damage as possible

Foremost, you are a tank. The second you get the mentality that you "will lose hate anyway" is the instant you need to rethink your roll as a tank. A good DD is supposed to take hate. This should happen. A good tank is the one that takes that hate right back. Otherwise, the Pld is just taking up space.

A well balanced tank mitigates damage, gears toward offense, and regains hate when lost.

[Chen]

it's nins who have should be trouble keeping hate in aht urghan, a gimped pld who isn't using basic swaps for enmity actions i.e. x2 mermaid rings,your af1, astral rope and high breath mantle will be the ones who are losing hate and saying it's impossible. pld/nin will do crap dmg and waste a slot in party

[Ultimagi]

swaps for enmity actions i.e. ... high breath mantle

What?

[Chen]

yes i'm aware the enchantment wears off when swapped. i added it into the list just to show how much enmity it is easy to get, which i think is +19 in cheap gear. making it very easy to keep hate in aht urghan areas

[Wolfknight]

x2 mermaid rings,

how do you use two of a rare item? <_<